All Factions to Horde Status

[smitty]

I've seen a lot of discussion on these forums about how cool it would be to see a faction re-emerge after being destroyed. I also gather that this is impossible. What would be interesting though is if every faction were set to Horde mode like the Mongols and Timurids once they lost their last settlement. That way if they still had existing family members alive with an army the faction would still be able to claim land elsewhere. Say France gets ousted by England and the HRE, but a few family members and their armies march into Italy and take a few settlements there they re-establish their kingdom without ever being destroyed!

I thought this might be accurate, especially because the existence of a royal family seems more important for a faction's existence than them controlling a single settlement. Also, I don't like factions being destroyed, especially when they still have a few full-stack armies marching with a General but then become rebel because their last settlement is taken. Might result in some interesting relocations or comebacks from certain factions. Thoughts, criticisms?

[republic_bohemia]

I agree with you,I think KK should do this for the next up-grade.

[reeke]

i've been wanting this for a few months now, the option to pack up and move like a horde would be quite interesting.

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

It can cause some serious lag though.

[Captain Irish]

The mod I played before this one, called Deus lo Volt, has a feature very similar to this. I never had it happen to my faction but every time I destroyed a faction, one the next turn a surviving family member and on some occasions 1 or more generals would appear somewhere in that faction's "ancestral" territories with a stack or two. They would either take a settlement and make a new capital or be wiped out again, after which I never saw them return.

Although I can't confirm if it would be an actual family member (like original MTW) or a random dude. I remember the first time I encountered this, I wiped out the Moors as Sicily by taking the Balearic island off the east coast of Iberia... or so I thought. On the next turn three stacks of Moors spawned on the island, quickly destroyed my forces there and after that I let them have the island

[Echad]

I wouldn't be able to spot this feature due to me rapidly killing off enemy family members before taking their last settlement... =\

[Oberhut]

Me like

[Byg]

Any family members would most likely be in that last region of theirs and probably get destroyed next turn anyway. In the dlv example mentioned I think whole new armies are just being added, they are not left over from before. The ai would not be likely to have the intelligence to wander off and successfully find a weak settlement to take without being given a new army, and then it would probably just try to retake the last one. I'm not sure.

I think it is possible for the king to run away when things look really bad (exit the map without dying) so maybe something could be done in advance of losing the last settlement if you want it dependent on family surviving. But that would be for the ai.

The human player could do much more in terms of running away at an opportune moment (without artificially giving him an extra army) and do better at seeking out a settlement for a new home elsewhere. for once I don't see any problem in the human having this advantage as at this point things would be pretty bad anyway.

[Henry X]

Well with some scripting, one could make it so that the AI goes to find a weak settlement nearby.

[Byg]

It could , but wouldn't it then become the next likely target of the faction that just defeated it?

Speaking as a human, I would get on a boat and find an island or a faraway rebel settlement, but the ai is so unlikely to do that.

[Tucker Dan]

I play a lot of DLV and have experienced this many times. Its a really neat feature except the fact that when the game returns to the campaign map after the battle that takes their last settlement you will think it froze because it takes around ten minutes for game to figure itself out. The person spawned is not one who you fought, its a new guy, with a new army, who have a lot of experience. As for the post-reemergence AI, on one campaign, as the Teutonic Order I believe, I wiped out the Lithuanians, who start a bit away from the city I just took and who I noticed, through toggling fog of war did not do anything other than wonder around. This was later in the campaign, so there were not any ready rebel settlements to take, but I don't see destroying a faction before that point anyways. On another campaign, as the Byzantines, I wiped out Venice. When they reemerged, I was neutral with them but in their wandering stupidity, they came back to my lands, where I started fighting them again, and one of their armies went south, attacked and captured a lightly defended city.

So the Ai is ok if you seek them out to reignite the conflict, if not they just seem to wander.

[Henry X]

It could , but wouldn't it then become the next likely target of the faction that just defeated it?

Does the AI often go after nuts that are tough to crack?

[burninglegionx]

I think SS will be better without it, as most DLV players said above, the game freezes for 10+ minutes. Unless KK or other modders find a way that won't freeze games, i'm against horde modes.

[Henry X]

Its not like we are bringing up full stacks; we're just bribing the rebels into joining them (the horde faction).

[smitty]

Its not like we are bringing up full stacks; we're just bribing the rebels into joining them (the horde faction).

I like that point, new armies aren't being generated just switched from rebel status to the faction status. Again, I'm not sure if that produces lag as badly as generating armies does, I highly doubt it does. I agree that waiting 10 minutes is much too tedious, but I am intrigued that this kind of thing does work... Any further ideas on how we could go about this? Anybody tech-wise on the matter?

[Inhuman One]

I dont want huge armies suddenly emerging after I defeat them, lets say I defeat Ireland early on as england, and then they suddenly have an army big enough to destroy me.

A better idea would be to simply let a faction be destroyed when all family members are gone. That way they have to rely on the troops they still have when they lost all provinces. If its not much thats tough luck for them.

I find it personly rather rediculous that a supposedly destroyed faction could somehow gather a huge army after being defeated to destroy the attackers.

[Byg]

I find it personly rather rediculous that a supposedly destroyed faction could somehow gather a huge army after being defeated to destroy the attackers.

It may seem crazy, but it is not without historical precedence. Ghengis was defeated, but took to the hills as a rebel, building up and training his forces and then conquered and created the largest land empire known in history.

Maybe rebels left alone too long could eventually become a faction that had previously been defeated in some way or even any cities that were formerly owned by the dead faction could reemerge if the new owner causes them to rebel. That's basically a shadow faction though so I don't know if it's that simple to do or even possible with M2TW. I would love to see shadow factions though. We had them in Rome TW.

edit:I think I just thought of a way....

[Henry X]

Sadly though, CA was too lazy to work in some of its best features into this game.

[Inhuman One]

destroyed is destroyed, if they didnt want to be destroyed they should have fought harder.

[King Yngvar]

Doh, I searched and searched, hoping I would find a thread on how to enable hordes...