Any Atheists/Agnostics who Want to be Religious, yet don't have the Faith or Discipline?

[The Good]

Are there any Atheists or Agnostics here who want to be Religious, yet just don't have the faith or discipline? Have you ever been compelled to become a religious person, but can't because you just cannot accept that something actually happened (according to the faith)?

This is a serious question, and also asks those who try to "roleplay" as being religious, yet are not personally believers. Religious members can also feel free to post here, and give some input to the discussion. I am not going to start a Creationism VS. Evolution debate, but I merely want to know how many non religious members here feel inclined to follow a religious path, yet you find that you lack the discipline or courage to....

Regarding my beliefs, I am a Christian, but not the modern "stereotypical" Christian that are often politicians, or hypocrites. Now, if you want to ask me a question personally, maybe it would be best to private message me instead, as you may feel embaressed to post it here, feel free to do that if you desire.



-Lucius Julius

[Irishman]

I dont know if I apply (being that philosophically, I am Buddhist) but am still atheist, but I will give my opinion.

I do not find a desire to follow a religious path or to have a "relationship" with God. I abhore many of the concepts of God and afterlives which are present in religions.

I find faith, and ideas justified upon them to be intellectually bankrupt and dishonest. I think that faith is a way to justify believing in something one knows rationally one should.

So if you are asking if I wish I had faith in God, I would answer with a VERY firm, NO.

Disclaimer: I am not saying that all religious believers are bad people, but I strongly disagree with the ones which use faith as the sole (or majority) basis of their belief.

[The Good]

I dont know if I apply (being that philosophically, I am Buddhist) but am still atheist, but I will give my opinion.

I do not find a desire to follow a religious path or to have a "relationship" with God. I abhore many of the concepts of God and afterlives which are present in religions.

I find faith, and ideas justified upon them to be intellectually bankrupt and dishonest. I think that faith is a way to justify believing in something one knows rationally one should.

So if you are asking if I wish I had faith in God, I would answer with a VERY firm, NO.

Disclaimer: I am not saying that all religious believers are bad people, but I strongly disagree with the ones which use faith as the sole (or majority) basis of their belief.

Okay, good enough post, except let me ask you one more question, if you do not mind.

Do you feel any feelings of desire for living past death? Would you like to go to a pleasurable afterlife if you knew it existed?

Thats all I will ask right now.

[Ummagumma]

Are there any Atheists or Agnostics here who want to be Religious

Not me.

yet just don't have the faith

Not a chance..

or discipline?

What?

[The Good]

^ Well, I just added discipline as a word in case someone didn't know the true definition of faith. Not that there will be many of those sort of people around here.

[Ummagumma]

^ Well, I just added discipline as a word in case someone didn't know the true definition of faith.

What?

Trust, confidence or strong belief. What does that have to do with strict training, enforcing of rules and controlling behaviour (or area of speciality)?

Oh, I get it..

[Gary88]

no i quite hate the idea of there being a god, i'm sure there are those who wouldn't mind. i mean heaven would be kind of cool so long as you got there.

[Irishman]

Do you feel any feelings of desire for living past death?

No not really. I believe that when I die my perception of 'me' will cease to exist. As the Epicureans said, "Death is nothing to us".

Of course, if there is an afterlife, I would sort of have to go, and either way I believe in living my life in the best way possible, so I have no fear of any outcome of death.

[The Good]

What?

Trust, confidence or strong belief. What does that have to do with strict training, enforcing of rules and controlling behaviour (or area of speciality)?

Oh, I get it..

The point of this thread to see how many non religious tried to believe, but just couldn't get into that particular mindset, couldn't accept the teachings as truth, couldn't have strong feelings towards it, etcetera....

No not really. I believe that when I die my perception of 'me' will cease to exist. As the Epicureans said, "Death is nothing to us".

Of course, if there is an afterlife, I would sort of have to go, and either way I believe in living my life in the best way possible, so I have no fear of any outcome of death.

Correct me if I am wrong, Irishman, but don't most Buddhists believe that once you die, it isn't truly the end for you? For instance, the idea that you are reincarnated to become born as another person, or even animal is recognized by Buddhism. Of course, there are different forms of it, denominations, if you will, Zen Buddhism comes to mind...

[Ummagumma]

Irishman:
It temporary anyway. Come judgement there is only 100,000 (I think) places for the 'eternal afterlife', and if you don't have the right descendants or a seal on your forehead, you're not coming in. At least that's what it says in the rule book.

[Irishman]

Correct me if I am wrong, Irishman, but don't most Buddhists believe that once you die, it isn't truly the end for you? For instance, the idea that you are reincarnated to become born as another person, or even animal is recognized by Buddhism. Of course, there are different forms of it, denominations, if you will, Zen Buddhism comes to mind...

The only thing you got wrong was "most". Literal levels of reincarnation is primarily a hindu belief, which transfered over into some sects of Buddhism. For instance, Vajryana (Tibetan Buddhism) believes in very mysitcal and literal reincarnation.

Most Buddhists, Chinese and Japanese Mahayana Buddhisms- Pure Land, Zen etc, and older traditions- Theravadan sects, believe that reincarnation is a metaphor for states of mind. In fact, it is a metaphor still used in solipsistic philosophy like Derek Parfit at Oxford.


Because their is no "self", the person which acted in the previous moment is not the same person as in this moment. Though, his actions DIRECTLY influence the situation in which you find yourself. This is the doctrine of Karma and reincarnation in mainstream Buddhism. This interpretation is supported by Sutras in Chinese traditions and also the original Dhammapada and other sutras.

Also, let me point out that this belief is totally irrelevant to the practice of Buddhism. In the reincarnationist religions, one simply spends a LONGER time in the circle of life. One is not reincarnated forever, one is simply reincarnated until one achieves enlightenment. So the end is the same, they just use metaphysical concepts, we dont (I practice in a Zen temple).

Ultimately (after the death of the ego- which is part of nirvana) there is no person, and there is nothing. So ultimately, all forms of Buddhism end in the destruction of the illusion of "personhood".

It temporary anyway. Come judgement there is only 100,000 (I think) places for the 'eternal afterlife', and if you don't have the right descendants or a seal on your forehead, you're not coming in. At least that's what it says in the rule book.

I dont understand what this has to do with anything I said.

[kev-o]

I guess I'm in the catagory of the OP. I'm having a crisis of faith (I'm Lutheran) and I fear what might be after death. I'm trying to work out some of the philosophies that I have a hard time accepting with in religion. I'm reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity and G.K Chesterton's Orthodoxy, two famous and intelligent philosophers as well as Christian apologists. I hope to learn more in detail from them on the hard to grasp concepts of religion.

[Irishman]

kev-o, if you dont mind me asking,

What are you afraid of, when it comes to death?

[kev-o]

Being seperated from the ones I love and punishment, eternal or finite. Its like Pascal's wager for me, only I'm struggaling to pick the wager that is most worth while.

[Kanaric]

I don't see why "faith" is a requirement for religion. Shouldn't you just follow the moral guidelines? What exactly do you need faith for? You would think the lessons that religion offers is really what you should worry about.

People rely too much these days on "faith" and "Discipline", whatever that means, rather than the actual message of their religions. I think that is the primary mistake of religion is where people get too hooked on "belief in god, miracles, and prophecy" rather than what the actual message is.

Though there is the idea that its supposed to be hard to get into "heaven", nirvana, or whatever good afterlife. Maybe that is why.

[kev-o]

And I try to follow the actual messages and look for logic to understand them.

Couldn't faith be similar to hope. Everyone has hope in something so why not call that faith.

[Legionem Insanis]

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith.
I consider the capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Are there any Atheists or Agnostics here who want to be Religious, yet just don't have the faith or discipline?

I doubt it. I've never met an atheist or agnostic who falls into this category. People who don't have the "faith" or "discipline" for a more firm or committed belief tend to be "I dunno, but I guess I believe in something but ... well, I don't go to church or anything I guess I kinda believe ..." types. Atheism and agnosticism requires some considered thought, study and contemplation on the issue and the adoption of a clear philosophical stance that is without any belief in God or gods.

I merely want to know how many non religious members here feel inclined to follow a religious path, yet you find that you lack the discipline or courage to....

See above. People who "lack the discipline or courage" to follow a religious path don't call themselves atheists or agnostics. And people who become atheists and agnostics don't do so out of some kind of intellectual or philosophical laziness - quite the opposite.

Do you feel any feelings of desire for living past death?

I sometimes wish I could fly, but that ain't going to happen either.

Would you like to go to a pleasurable afterlife if you knew it existed?

I think the obvious answer to that for anyone would be "Yes". Can you think of any reason someone would say "No" to that question? The fact remains that we don't know that one exists and that it's pretty clear to most non-religious people that the idea of an afterlife, pleasurable or otherwise, is a fantasy. I'm no more bothered by or afraid of totally ceasing to exist when I die than I am of the fact I totally didn't exist before I was born.

Why religious people are so blasé about their non-existence before they were born but so worried by the idea they won't exist after they die is a mystery to me. I didn't exist for billions of years before now and I won't exist for billions of years after I die. This is all the more reason to live well now while I can.

Being seperated from the ones I love and punishment, eternal or finite.

If death=oblivion you won't know about any such separation. As for punishment - punishment by who and for what? Do you really believe in a God or gods so childish and petty that they'd bother to punish you for the kinds of things a limited being like you could do here on earth? That people honestly believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent deity that is, supposedly, so vastly amazing and wonderful that he can create and sustain the whole cosmos, yet also believe that he cares about what we do with our toilet parts is another mystery.

There's no man in the sky with a list of every time you stole a cookie.
He's not going to punish you in Hell, because that doesn't exist either.
These are stories - like stories of Zeus, or Thor or the angry volcano spirit.

You don't exist, then you do for a while, then you don't again. Make the most of what time you have now by living well with your fellow humans, learning as much as you can and fulfilling your full potential. Then smile on your deathbed at a life lived fully and richly and sink peacefully into the rest of death.

The end.

[The Prophet]

Do you remember what it felt like before you were born? Thats what it will be like after death.

[Siblesz]

Do you remember what it felt like before you were born? Thats what it will be like after death.

I don't remember what I felt like two days ago.