Burgundy

**smitty** · December 12, 2007, 07:02 PM

I've been finding with how many settlements there are in the France/HRE area that these two empires are quickly able to maintain a stronghold in Europe while squashing the other factions with ease, especially Milan. I was wondering what your guys' thoughts would be for adding the faction of Burgundy? It would effectively place a faction between these two great empires and hopefully prove a decent means of halting the growth of the other two. Thoughts?

**Landwalker** · December 12, 2007, 07:13 PM

Man, I almost never see either France or the HRE become powerhouses in the West, let alone both of them. France either dominates the HRE but loses stuff to England and Milan, or the HRE holds its own against France but gets carved up by Poland and Denmark.

That aside, what would make Burgundy unique?

Cheers.

**~~Tarif~~** · December 12, 2007, 07:22 PM

For a mod that focuses on all of Europe, Burgundy would serve little purpose. Besides, France almost always dies out as Landwalker eloquently put it.

Burgundy is for mods with smaller scopes, I think--see Das Heilige Romische Reich for an example. Similary there are 100 years war mods being worked on.

Tarif.

**Son of Mao** · December 12, 2007, 10:42 PM

Burgundy would only have town militia because they are dumb

**mailor** · December 13, 2007, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Tobolight

Burgundy would only have town militia because they are dumb

Hahaha, that's a very funny thing to say.

I'll even give you reputation for this, since I find it highly amusing!

**Son of Mao** · December 14, 2007, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tobolight

Burgundy would only have town militia because they are dumb

Must I remind you what the faction would be like?

**Lord Condormanius** · December 14, 2007, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Tobolight

Must I remind you what the faction would be like?

Perhaps I have to point out that you are sadly mistaken.

**Sosobra** · December 14, 2007, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Tobolight

Must I remind you what the faction would be like?

Apparently you have a lack of understanding about medieval Europe or you like to make the same joke over and over again , ether way its irritating.

Burgundy would make a great addition to SS , especially late game.

**Inhuman One** · December 13, 2007, 03:30 AM

why give rep for a childish remark?

Either way I agree with the original poster. The HRE and France are strong factions no matter how you put it. In my Sicily campaign I am fighting france together with the papal states and the three Iberian factions which I am allied with as well. If I did nothing France would have owned all of spain by now, whiping out three civilizations along the way.
The HRE is neutral in this war but whiped out Denmark and is busy against Norway and Venice now, they destroyed Milan and most of Venice already.

Burgundy could be a great faction, I think their troops should be a mixture of France and the HRE, while excluding the strongest units of both factions.

So they would get zweihanders, Voulgiers, French archers, Imperial knights with maces, and perhaps an english unit as well.

They could be a very interesting faction, and a challenge too. Best would be to let them start with few provinces but with a good militairy to at least be able to cripple the french or the HRE before being defeated.

**Son of Mao** · December 13, 2007, 07:50 AM

It was a joke

**whhyy** · December 13, 2007, 08:25 AM

It was a good joke.

My only worry is Burgundy may clutter things up to much.

**Bacon!** · December 13, 2007, 09:56 AM

personally i dont think a faction is needed in that area as i usually see france destroy the HRE with Poland then Aragon or spain and millan destroy France. personally i would like to see the map extend a bit more north

**Landwalker** · December 13, 2007, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Bacon!

personally i dont think a faction is needed in that area as i usually see france destroy the HRE with Poland then Aragon or spain and millan destroy France. personally i would like to see the map extend a bit more north

Indeed. I don't think a new faction would be needed for it, but I would like to see the map perhaps get as far north as Trondheim, and maybe even include Iceland. Anything beyond that, though, would certainly be unnecessary (and Iceland probably is, as well).

Cheers.

**Marine Hoplite** · December 13, 2007, 10:07 AM

before we need to extend the map I think we should add some provinces in N africa. currently there are vast swathes of land with only one settlement.

IMO

**Bacon!** · December 13, 2007, 10:09 AM

second.

**schulthies** · December 13, 2007, 11:09 AM

As much as I'd like to see Burgundy as a faction... alass we are getting more Russians

... Cumans...

**Fenix_120** · December 13, 2007, 11:19 AM

Burgundy was a part of France at the start of this mod right?

I didn't think it was until the 1200's they became independent.

**Lord Condormanius** · December 14, 2007, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Fenix_120

Burgundy was a part of France at the start of this mod right?

I didn't think it was until the 1200's they became independent.

That is a very shaky principle. France was very much fragmented throughout the Middle Ages. Just because something was nominally part of the Kingdom of France (in most cases, vassals of France), does not mean that they actually liked each other, or even operated as if they were under the same rule. For quite some time, the King of France was not safe to travel outside of Paris.

For all intents and purposes the Duchy of Burgundy was independent from 1032 - 1477.

**Hesus de bodemloze** · December 13, 2007, 03:37 PM

burgundy whas strong and whealthy thy even foght for the french throne where verry loved in flanders and the rest of the low lands (city brugge one of the biggest city' s in europ at the time whas a resident for the duke of burgundy his heart stayed in the sint - donaas cathedral te brugge) so thy would be verry powerfull if K K decides to make them a part of the game