The American Atheists Org

[Jabberwock]

I was watching a documentary about O'Hair and listening to the things she says. It also showed the American Atheist org and showed the current president of the org.

http://www.atheists.org

The first thing that came into my head when the show was over: these people completely defeat the purpose. They are no better than any Christian apologist or evangelist. I went to their website and replaced atheist with Christian, Christian context, and replaced the symbol with a cross you will have a Christian website.

I was listening to the current president speak. She said she wanted an atheist movement and to organize all the atheists in America. To serve what purpose? To make everyone thing like you do just like how theist would like people to think like they do?

They said they have a right to not believe (nobody said that they didn't) but it seems they don't understand that people also have a right to believe, otherwise why are to so devoted to attacking others beliefs. I'm lead to believe they are only working and thinking for themselves, whatever promulgates their beliefs. No better than a religious institution.

Do you think these people defeat the purpose? Are they just a "Church" of atheists?

I'm not a theist btw.

[Chaigidel]

atheism occupys the same place in the mind (imo) as any religion, its only natural these people would feel the need to create community with that philosophical religious choice in mind.

also the need to unify the atheists, also very natural; I dont think its anything untoward so to speak; they are no better than a religious institution; perhaps they will seek tax exempt status ?

[Jabberwock]

They do have tax exemption, they are a non-profit.

[Chaigidel]

there you have it they are a church; holy is the hunter !

[Dayman]

there you have it they are a church; holy is the hunter !

No, they aren't, and, I've said it before, your opinion that atheism is a religion is wrong. If it's "just your opinion" than stop stating it as fact.


Oh, and to the OP, I do agree with you. I'm an atheist, but I'm really starting to dislike some of the more militant ones out there. Now, there is nothing wrong with a resource or a website with atheist materials out there, or anything like that.

I was almost taken in by the militant atheist movement, I stepped back, and I realized that trying to force everyone to think like you was just as bad as fundie Christians, and was also a breach of people's rights to think as they do.

[Bokks]

Atheism is a belief.
Let me say that again...
BELIEF
What is religion? It is a belief. The difference is that religion is a belief and faith in a higher power, atheism is a belief that no higher power exists.
Because of that of course atheists want to band together somehow, and they'd also sound exactly like theistic sites because they have interest in the same discussion.
Take a theist sentance:
"There is a god."
An atheist sentance is:
"There is not a god."
Add or subtract the "not" and it follows... it becomes... the oppositions belief. Why? Because it's interested in the same debate, just taking a different side.

Now yes, atheists are becoming as evangelical as evangelicals are. But that's because for some reason people attack them left and right, even in this site many people have it in their minds that atheists are incapable of simple morality.
It's called defense, and the only way to fight anything is to show the same arguments for your own discussion. A theist says that atheists are incapable of morality, the only way to counter that is to talk about morality, not about something unrelated. You don't fight evangelism talking about bananas.

Ug! Seneca stole the wind under my wings!!!

I guess I took too long to type again...

[Dayman]

Take a theist sentance:
"There is a god."
An atheist sentance is:
"There is not a god."

No, for most atheists it's like this:

Take a theist sentence:
"There is a god."
An atheist sentence is:
"There may or may not be a god, most likely not, based on (insert reasons here), and therefore I choose to live my life without belief."

[userfri3ndly]

No, for most atheists it's like this:

Take a theist sentence:
"There is a god."
An atheist sentence is:
"There may or may not be a god, most likely not, based on (insert reasons here), and therefore I choose to live my life without belief."

isn't "there may or may not be a god" more of an agnostic stance? correct me if i'm wrong

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Atheism is a belief.
Let me say that again...
BELIEF

No, it's the absence of a belief. Let me say that again - the absence of a belief.

Take a theist sentance:
"There is a god."
An atheist sentance is:
"There is not a god."

Christ! How many times do we have to explain to you people that this is WRONG??!! Please tell me what I'd need to do to jackhammer this through your skull.

[Denny Crane!]

There isn't a unifying belief system in atheism like in religion, it is one common factor, and that is a disbelief in a diety.

How that comes even close to religion I have no idea. Perhaps people are confusing tribalism with religion.

Whats next comparing football and religion?

[Chaigidel]

im not saying all atheists are participants in a religion-- just this group of atheists who define themselves with common beliefs set holidays

when you follow a religious belief to the point of philosophy it is equal to atheisms stance on a religious philosophy though; i will admit to the organizational aspect of religions.

[Bokks]

... holidays?
What holidays?
Even then it's not a soully theistic institution, Thanksgiving has nothing to do with religion. Heck, neither does Christmas anymore, it's all about Santa, not about anyones birthday.
Which fits me just fine, especially since Jesus was born closer to October...

[userfri3ndly]

Which fits me just fine, especially since Jesus was born closer to October...

wasn't it march?

[Chaigidel]

its only the atheists org; they openly state that they like to particpate in a winter celebration!

[Bokks]

What'd they call it?:hmmm:
Der VinterSolstise...
That'd be a popular one!

...March? Hadn't heard that month, I've always heard October.
Could've been March though, that'd make more sense.
Really evanglical people would be happier too, since a lot of 'em call Halloween the "Devils Day"

[Denny Crane!]

its only the atheists org; they openly state that they like to particpate in a winter celebration!

Meh whats wrong with christmas, its got about as much to do with religion as my toilet, though occasionally.....

that is the one place I might feel the urge to pray to god, make it stop! Instead Terry Pratchett gets my devotions as my pooing book of choice.

[ajm317]

Well just to play devil's advocate...

First of all, most of the people in groups like this have no intention of "forcing" any one to be atheists (I think everyone here knows that but they like to take poetic license) just like most evangelical Christians have no intention of "forcing" any one to be Christian. The intent, again for most, is to "persuade" not "force".

As to why we should care if the population at large is Christian, or atheist, or Muslim...well in the real world you have to play by the majorities rules. Examples of Christianities impact on law and politics in the U.S. are many and varied. No gay marriage, complaints about abortion, efforts to get ID taught in schools, stem cell research...the list goes on.

So if the majority of the population in your country follows a religious movement that objects to stem cell research, and you'd like to have stem cell research, what's wrong with trying to persuade them into your way of thinking?

In secular Europe it's probably not so necessary, but in the U.S. it's not too hard to imagine why atheists may want to organize, for lobbying purposes if nothing else.

[Denny Crane!]

Well just to play devil's advocate...

First of all, most of the people in groups like this have no intention of "forcing" any one to be atheists (I think everyone here knows that but they like to take poetic license) just like most evangelical Christians have no intention of "forcing" any one to be Christian. The intent, again for most, is to "persuade" not "force".

As to why we should care if the population at large is Christian, or atheist, or Muslim...well in the real world you have to play by the majorities rules. Examples of Christianities impact on law and politics in the U.S. are many and varied. No gay marriage, complaints about abortion, efforts to get ID taught in schools, stem cell research...the list goes on.

So if the majority of the population in your country follows a religious movement that objects to stem cell research, and you'd like to have stem cell research, what's wrong with trying to persuade them into your way of thinking?

In secular Europe it's probably not so necessary, but in the U.S. it's not too hard to imagine why atheists may want to organize, for lobbying purposes if nothing else.

Even in secular Europe, in the UK for example the CoE gets bishops in the House of Lords for some reason and we have a massive catholic lobby group. Way bigger than any other lobbying group, perhaps not as influential as the property developers with cheque writing skills but certainly larger.

[Jabberwock]

Well just to play devil's advocate...

First of all, most of the people in groups like this have no intention of "forcing" any one to be atheists (I think everyone here knows that but they like to take poetic license) just like most evangelical Christians have no intention of "forcing" any one to be Christian. The intent, again for most, is to "persuade" not "force".

As to why we should care if the population at large is Christian, or atheist, or Muslim...well in the real world you have to play by the majorities rules. Examples of Christianities impact on law and politics in the U.S. are many and varied. No gay marriage, complaints about abortion, efforts to get ID taught in schools, stem cell research...the list goes on.

So if the majority of the population in your country follows a religious movement that objects to stem cell research, and you'd like to have stem cell research, what's wrong with trying to persuade them into your way of thinking?

In secular Europe it's probably not so necessary, but in the U.S. it's not too hard to imagine why atheists may want to organize, for lobbying purposes if nothing else.

The problem is that these group of people are almost on the same playing field as of the Christian Coalition, if only they had more power.

[ajm317]

The problem is that these group of people are almost on the same playing field as of the Christian Coalition, if only they had more power.

What do you mean by the same playing field? What do the two have in common? That they would both like very much to have their voice heard in national politics? What's wrong with that?

There's a lot of things I don't like about the Christian Coalition, but the fact that they complain is not one of them. I don't much like what they complain about but that's a seperate issue.