Arrows + blood

[ignasigh]

Hey SS addicts!

I absolutely love this mod, but I'd like to know your opinion about few things.

First thing is regarding arrows. A "pavise crossbowmen militia" only kills 4-8 men per fire (spear militia), and it looks too few for me. I know that depends on targeted unit but I expect higher death rate. What about range? "peasant archers" range is 100 when longbowmen is 200. The point is that 100 means enemy units so close! I know how to change it, but I'd like to know if it's "historically" realistic.

Second, blood is not in 5.1...how can I turn it on again?

Thanks!

[Landwalker]

A "pavise crossbowmen militia" only kills 4-8 men per fire (spear militia)

That's because (1) they're crossbow militia, they're not that good, and (2) their armor-piercing ability is meant to be used against armored targets, not spear militia. Bows are better for unarmored targets. Also, what unit size are you playing on? 4-8 units on Normal size is much better than 4-8 on Huge size. Finally, consider that even on Huge size, getting 6 kills per volley (and probably 4-5 volleys before they close) is going to knock down the enemy somewhere in the area of 30 guys, so now you're up against 120 instead of 150. That's easily enough difference for some dinky unit of your own to handle the spearmen without worry.

What about range? "peasant archers" range is 100 when longbowmen is 200. The point is that 100 means enemy units so close!

Peasant archers use low-quality short bows that should (and do) have a low range and low power. Longbows are, well, very long, allowing them to get more oomph behind that arrow and get it to travel much further. Comparing a dinky little thing mostly used for small game hunting to a large, powerful, weapon whose whole point was that it could shoot further than almost anything else (except siege artillery) seems like an absurd comparison to make. Yes, the range on peasant archers is very short, and it should be. Short bows aren't capable of reaching, let alone killing, anything far away.

Cheers.

[schulthies]

Range does plays a huge amount in the kill rate of crossbows/guns especially (though guns just don't seem to kill much of anything imo not even the musketeers... just scares the piss out of em) . I implore you to do a custom battle with just a few units, have your melee unit go head to head with your opponent but use your crossbows to go around and flank the enemy. Give them a full volley in the back you'll be amazed to see how many drop

[Echad]

You can destroy even stronger AI army with careful use of peasant archers alone - just skirmish them, keeping your spearmen nearby if they send cavalry to retaliate...

And peasant archers should be hudred times worse than the Longbowmen... Guess what was the England's main military might? Right not for no reason.

[Marine Hoplite]

Guess what was the England's main military might?

Uhhhh, longbowmen.

The differrence between longbowmen/yeomen/retinue and peasants is supposed to be the differrence between the guy who started shooting a bow at 10 or 12 years old and has practiced daily til adulthood and now shoots a 135# bow with 1/2" thick bodkin arrows and can pincushion a soldier at 200 yards and the farmer who put a string on a twig to kill rabbits at 30 yards

[Echad]

Uhhhh, longbowmen.

The differrence between longbowmen/yeomen/retinue and peasants is supposed to be the differrence between the guy who started shooting a bow at 10 or 12 years old and has practiced daily til adulthood and now shoots a 135# bow with 1/2" thick bodkin arrows and can pincushion a soldier at 200 yards and the farmer who put a string on a twig to kill rabbits at 30 yards

I think we have satisfied the author of the thread with our responses... =)

[Marine Hoplite]

I think we have satisfied the author of the thread with our responses... =)

OOHHHHHHHHH

Sorry, had a dumb a$$ moment. I read your post and thought you meant that peasants should be wayy more effective than longbowmen and had been the staple of englands military

[Echad]

OOHHHHHHHHH

Sorry, had a dumb a$$ moment. I read your post and thought you meant that peasants should be wayy more effective than longbowmen and had been the staple of englands military

You made me laugh... =) Peasands as a staple of England's military! =) Wow! We need to rewrite history books... The fearsome English Peasant with uber Das Pitchfork. =\

I was just saying that even with this small range, Attack and Defence, you can pwn AI with peasant archers... If you go for a right tactic, that is... And Longbows in early age simply destroy a good half of enemy stack, just waiting for the enemy to come in close, especially uphills... And the stakes give more time for spearmen to come on rescue, when the cavalry appears.

Crossbows are inferior to them vs the usual troops at the start of a game and inferior to the Muskets at the end, when there is a lot of armored targets - as it should be...

And yeah - peasant archers in the back rows, shooting in the air are more likely to kill your troops, than enemy's, so the only tactics, I found to work, except regular "fire at the start of a battle to weaken an enemy' is skirmishing like a javelinmen would do... At least vs the AI, it works great...

So, anyone, has the answers 'bout the blood, or we will talk about archers forever?

[ignasigh]

I think we have satisfied the author of the thread with our responses... =)

ABSOLUTELY!!!

But I have to reply Hellfire15, review what's up with the range vs kill rate and bring blood back to be completely satisfied

[ignasigh]

Hey guys, thx for your replies there..

I'm using a mod that oversizes unit limit, but consider it as "huge" size. In any case, I thought that dead ratio per voley is higher than it's now, I see I'm wrong.

I guess this cannot be changed but death ratio must be affected by range, coz I had a crossbow militia shooting to spear militia only a few meters ahead and they receive the same damage...pierce force shall be higher! (or that's what it looks to me!)

[hellfire15]

Hey guys, thx for your replies there..

I'm using a mod that oversizes unit limit

where can i find this?

[ignasigh]

where can i find this?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...increase+units

I hope u like it

[hellfire15]

thanks!

[mailor]

ignasigh: I am not sure about this, but I think crossbows are not working properly, until you set their radius to at least 0.1 in the descr_projectile.txt (same value as for arrows).

[Landwalker]

ignasigh: I am not sure about this, but I think crossbows are not working properly, until you set their radius to at least 0.1 in the descr_projectile.txt (same value as for arrows).

This is correct. Guns have the same problem. If you set the radius property to what it ought to be, you will have no trouble.

Cheers.

[satthukaraoke]

Hey SS addicts!

Second, blood is not in 5.1...how can I turn it on again?

I would like to know that as well, I miss the bloody battlefield.

[CelphTitled]

go download ziher's blood retexture in the downloads section, not in threads.
just copy over ss and main data folder, looks great trust me

[Hesus de bodemloze]

go download ziher's blood retexture in the downloads section, not in threads.
just copy over ss and main data folder, looks great trust me

can you place a link in this topic?

[Point Blank]

I just tested this with the upcoming RC 1.4 version, combined with Lusted's latest AI. I played the 150 spear militia, and let the AI handle the 120 Pavise Crossbow Militia. All missile weapons have been reviewed in 1.4.

The AI moved to firing range and fired 1 volley, killing 9 spear militia. The Pavises then moved in to a much closer range (if this behaviour is part of Lusted's new AI, its very good) and started shooting again. First volley, 20 killed, next 15, next 21. Total casualties inflicted 65 in 4 volleys, bearing in mind that its mostly the front rank only that is exposed to flat-trajectory crossbow fire.

[King Kong]

I really don't get why some people think there would be no blood in SS. :hmmm:

This is a screenshot I made and it these guys in the front of it were fighting just a few seconds:

[/CENTER]

I think the blood is clearly visible and looks pretty realistic.
Also I didn't like those "tomato" fights anymore...