Refuting the Atheism = Hitler-Stalin-Mao Fallacy

[The Prophet]

One of the most common arguments against atheism that many theists/religionists use is that atheism was responsible for Nazism/Communism and directly responsible for all the millions of deaths under Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

I want the bright atheist/secular minds on total war forums to help systematically and properly debunk this ridiculous claim on this thread and lay out all the facts and arguments us atheists can use to put this ridiculous argument in its place quickly and swiftly whenever theists bring it up.

Do it.

[mongoose]

Atheism is merely the belief that there is no such thing as God, so there are no other teaching attached to it that could motivate someone to do something or not to do something. It's like saying that if a Latin professor goes on a shooting rampage, it was his knowledge of Latin that was to blame.

[Chaigidel]

and its the same with any religion, ultimately it is the choice of the individual how he behaves regardless of his chosen philosophy.

its ridiculous to claim otherwise in any respect.

[Sidmen]

and its the same with any religion, ultimately it is the choice of the individual how he behaves regardless of his chosen philosophy.

its ridiculous to claim otherwise in any respect.

I'm sorry, but when you have a religion that says that a man speaks the word of god, and that man, say, orders that the religous faithful should go and retake the holy land, I say its fair to claim that you can judge the religion by that.

[Stavroforos]

I say it's fair to claim that the faithful reclaim the holy land when it was taken from those who owned it.

Anyway, Hitler wasn't an atheist, he was legally Catholic. And the others might have been atheists, but they didn't act on the behalf of atheism.

Same thing applies to religious people. The fact that Hitler was a Catholic doesn't do anything against the Catholic religion considering that he didn't act in the name of religion, nor were his ideas supported by the Church.

[Sidmen]

I say it's fair to claim that the faithful reclaim the holy land when it was taken from those who owned it.

This is an uneducated position. The holy land was taken from those who owned it, after it was taken from those who owned it, after it was taken from those who owned it, I could go on but don't feel like typing that much.

For the sake of argument, who did you think about when I made the post? I was speaking about the popes who started the crusades.

[Stavroforos]

I was thinking about the same thing, certainly not a modern day context.

But I mean...the Middle East was owned by the West since the time of Alexander....so that's 900 years of Western rule over it. Then the Arabs come and take it away, as well as plenty of lands of the Byzantine Empire, while destroying the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, overtaxing Christians, and attacking pilgrims. I think the Pope had a just reason to launch the Crusade.

[Cúchulainn]

But I mean...the Middle East was owned by the West since the time of Alexander....

Who was neither Christan nor "Western"

so that's 900 years of Western rule over it

Forgetting of course owership my the Hittites, Sumerians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Israelites, the Persians.

And then of course Alexander.
For a couple of years anyway.

[Richard]

Can't say I've encountered anyone stupid enough to link Hitler with atheism but I have seen the communist leaders mentioned in relation to it.

[Medicus]

Can't say I've encountered anyone stupid enough to link Hitler with atheism but I have seen the communist leaders mentioned in relation to it.

There was a thread a while back when someone suggested it.

Naturally, he was shot down. In flames. Oh, that was a fun thread.

[Perikles]

If Atheism is defined as a lack of belief then claiming Hitler, Mao and Stalin acted on behalf of atheism has as much logical clout as claiming they acted due to their lack of belief in the supremacy of the Pandas. These people were motivated by their own self interest and political beliefs, not acting in the name of a 'non-God'. This can be contrasted with the crusaders, who although they were motivated by self-interest and their political beliefs too, they were mainly acting on behalf of their faith and therefore their God.

[iudas]

Well you don't need to be bright or an atheist to debunk this. It's almost as stupid as saying that religion was responsible for the death of people in the Middle-Ages.

[Exarch]

does that mean bernard gui, torqemada, Pope Leo X, the nobles of the albigensian crusade (or any crusade for that matter), the spanish conquistadors, to name a few were all atheists?
damn, i'd hate to see what a proper christian's like then.

[chilon]

"During 1959, The Dalai Lama went to China to speak with Chairman Mao Zedong. Mao told him, "Religion is poison. ... Tibet and Mongolia have both been poisoned by it." Also during this year, the Chinese retaliate against the Tibetan resistance, killing more than 87,000. On March 17, 1959, The Dalai Lama escapes His sacred homeland, seeking political asylum in India. The Chinese declare martial law as thousands of Tibetan refugees begin pouring into India.

Smash the Four Olds 1958-1976
During Chairman Mao Zedong's "Great Leap Forward," Tibetans suffered through the Tibetan Cultural Revolution experiencing some of the worst human rights abuses ever known, under the slogan "Smash the Four Olds:" old ideas, old culture, old customs and old habits. Before the Chinese occupation, there are 6,000 Tibetan monasteries in Tibet. After the Cultural Revolution, there are six. Hundreds of thousands of Monks, Nuns and civilians are imprisoned or killed for wearing traditional hairstyles and clothing, engaging in traditional song or dance, or voicing their religious beliefs. Rituals such as prostrations, mantras, prayer wheels, circumambulation, throwing tsampa and burning juniper or incense are strictly prohibited. Anything representing the cultural identity of the Tibetan people is eradicated. "


Mao's militant and aggressive form of atheism very much played a role in his brutal and inhuman politics.

[Bokks]

Wow, that is chilling.
It has nothing to do with atheism, however, since atheism is merely the belief that there is no higher power or all-powerful creator. The horrors that Mao showed were not atheist, because they retained religious ferver. I'm niot saying that religion is to blame either, but the religiosity zeal is what Mao presented, in this case his "religion" was Communism, and anything that moved away from the party was to be eradicated.
The same can really be said of all the terrors that have been spoken of and blamed on atheism in this thread, since there was a cause--a terrible cause--which had to be adhered to, and when it was people died. That is religious devotion given to the state, so if you'd blame such horrors on anything it would be religion. Or, more correctly, the worship of the state, which is Nationalism.

Just as an aside, a great deal of my friends who are in the "Free Tibet" movement are atheists.

[chilon]

The same can really be said of all the terrors that have been spoken of and blamed on atheism in this thread, since there was a cause--a terrible cause--which had to be adhered to, and when it was people died. That is religious devotion given to the state, so if you'd blame such horrors on anything it would be religion. Or, more correctly, the worship of the state, which is Nationalism.

When you read things like the tenth Panchen Lama's most extensive documentation of Chinese atrocities and read the accounts of the Panchen Lama's life you would see that what Mao practiced was actually Atheistic Nationalism.
To deny that Mao's personal hatred of religion and his own personal atheistic communist belief system (and other top Party officials) had ANY effect on Cultural revolution atrocity policies is simply not accurate.

[mongoose]

Well you don't need to be bright or an atheist to debunk this. It's almost as stupid as saying that religion was responsible for the death of people in the Middle-Ages.

Blaming religion in general isn't technically correct, but certain specific religions have in the past played a role in various atrocities.

[Medicus]

Blaming religion in general isn't technically correct, but certain specific religions have in the past played a role in various atrocities.

You sure about that?

The only religion I can think of that hasn't caused deaths is Pastafarianism.

[Chaigidel]

the crusades were entirely religious on the surface entirely involved with money and power beneath the crusades were not religious wars--

and yes technically anyone who has ever done evil in the history of man can be considered an atheist-- because if you truly fear god you will not step out of line.;

[Ummon]

One of the most common arguments against atheism that many theists/religionists use is that atheism was responsible for Nazism/Communism and directly responsible for all the millions of deaths under Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

I want the bright atheist/secular minds on total war forums to help systematically and properly debunk this ridiculous claim on this thread and lay out all the facts and arguments us atheists can use to put this ridiculous argument in its place quickly and swiftly whenever theists bring it up.

Do it.

Actually, atheism wasn't responsible for the actions of those men, but all those men were atheists, for a reason... So if in the top ten pinball scorers everyone is from London, what should we investigate as a consequence?