'intelligent' design vs Evolution

[Exarch]

i seriously thought creationism was permanently consigned to the dustbins of history back in 2005 (kansas state etc) until i came across this on the net:

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/1...aken_to_School

seriously, when will these ppl finally pick up a standard high school biology book and actually read and absorb the contents. sheesh!

which is why i'm opening this forum for ppl who advocate intelligent design (ID) to present your cases, and i really mean prepare your cases; provide me with sources and studies (a word of note, the bible which claims the sun revolves around the earth, is not to be referenced as a source) that back up intelligent design.
i want you to provide me with an alternate theory to the theory of evolution- so u cant use the argument from ignorance stance: 'we dont how it happened...therefore god did it!'.

i want u to change my mind and views about evolutionary theory, even earth science if u want to go really far back in time. enlighten me.

PS and i cant stress this enough; back up ur claims and sources with links.

PPS if u want, u can reference kent hovind. i need a good laugh.

[Kiljan Arslan]

I believe that god has sometime intervened in evolution but most of the time let evolution has continued its natural course.

Intelligent design says that god has designed everything and then kills it off when not need it anymore.

I however do not want my belief taught in schools. Also I just believe that humans are not an accident that theres a reason why we are here.

BTW Hovind is a freeloading tax dodging *******.

[The Good]

I vote Intelligent Design, mostly for my beliefs, but it also makes sense, it tells the whole story, rather than evolution, which doesn't explain what ever happened before the Big Bang event. Seriously, how could the big band have happened if there was absolutely nothing before it? Only God's intervention could have caused it, same with Intelligent Design, actually. Perhaps God could have used evolution to accomplish creating the Universe, but according to my beliefs, he most likely didn't.

[Lord Condormanius]

I vote Intelligent Design, mostly for my beliefs, but it also makes sense, it tells the whole story, rather than evolution, which doesn't explain what ever happened before the Big Bang event. Seriously, how could the big band have happened if there was absolutely nothing before it? Only God's intervention could have caused it, same with Intelligent Design, actually. Perhaps God could have used evolution to accomplish creating the Universe, but according to my beliefs, he most likely didn't.

The only problem is that there is absolutely no evidence for ID. There is plenty of evidence of evolution and big bang. ID is based only on conjecture.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]I vote Intelligent Design, mostly for my beliefs, but it also makes sense, it tells the whole story, rather than evolution, which doesn't explain what ever happened before the Big Bang event.

What on earth has a biological theory got to do with "the Big Bang"?

Seriously, how could the big band have happened if there was absolutely nothing before it?

Seriously, what's north of the North Pole?

Only God's intervention could have caused it,

And you're basing that wild leap of logic on ... what, exactly?

Perhaps God could have used evolution to accomplish creating the Universe,

That's theistic evolution. A much smarter option than so-called "Intelligent Design"/Creationism-in-Sheep's-Clothing if you want to reconcile the masses of clear evidence that evolution happened with the idea of God.

... but according to my beliefs, he most likely didn't.

And those beliefs are based on ... what, exactly? Not science, obviously.

[Spurius]

Seriously, what's north of the North Pole?

Eeeeeerm...... Polaris, aka the Pole Star?

[sorry, couldn't resist]

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Evolution.
I've read God Delusion and I believe what the author says.
Speaking of which, did anyone watch BBC's Have Your Say yesterday?

Lucius Julius, nothing is more unanswerable than the mystery of God's infinite regress.

[The Good]

I vote Intelligent Design, mostly for my beliefs, but it also makes sense, it tells the whole story, rather than evolution, which doesn't explain what ever happened before the Big Bang event. Seriously, how could the big band have happened if there was absolutely nothing before it? Only God's intervention could have caused it, same with Intelligent Design, actually. Perhaps God could have used evolution to accomplish creating the Universe, but according to my beliefs, he most likely didn't.

You are right, Lord Condormanius, but that's where the test of faith comes in. . But I could ask the same of the Big Bang theory, I know according to that theory, it happened, just happened, boom, it started, the Universe began, thats basically what the theory is stating. The Big Bang theory can't entirely be proven either, but it is logical to believe that something major must have happened during the early time of the Universe.

Now let me ask you a question, why do you think the world looks so detailed? Why don't we look like blobs, or why are we even the shapes we are anyway? Well, according to evolution, over time, through a timespan of millions of years, we developed to become what we are today. Don't you think there is a flaw to that theory? For instance, one could ask the question: will a whole pizza become a living, breathing creature by the timespan of several million years? I think it's safe for any of us to say "I don't know," but thats basically what evolution is suggesting.

Now, back to Creation, in fact, the Creation of the world may not have been 6 days to what we know of it, the original Hebrew word for day means a certain amount of time, it might as well could have been a million years, but I think it was a lot less.

[Lord Condormanius]

Now let me ask you a question, why do you think the world looks so detailed? Why don't we look like blobs, or why are we even the shapes we are anyway? Well, according to evolution, over time, through a timespan of millions of years, we developed to become what we are today. Don't you think there is a flaw to that theory?

No. I don't see it as a flaw at all. Are you one of those people that tries to suggest that the world looks the way it does because God is some kind of artist? Please.

For instance, one could ask the question: will a whole pizza become a living, breathing creature by the timespan of several million years? I think it's safe for any of us to say "I don't know," but thats basically what evolution is suggesting.

No...not even close. I think you should refresh yourself on evolutionary theory.

Now, back to Creation, in fact, the Creation of the world may not have been 6 days to what we know of it, the original Hebrew word for day means a certain amount of time, it might as well could have been a million years, but I think it was a lot less.

That is irrelevant. There is evidence for evolutionary processes. There is no evidence for creation.

Kiljan...

I hope you know that Hovind is a fraud.

[movemove]

I personaly beleive that the evolutionary theory and the theory of intelligent design can co exist, in the sense that god created things to carry out their appropirate fuctions and evovle through time. Im not sure I worded that correctly, but I am basically trying to say god could have designed evolution.

However, I still fail to see how a horse a few million years later would come up to you and say hi!.

[Kiljan Arslan]

No. I don't see it as a flaw at all. Are you one of those people that tries to suggest that the world looks the way it does because God is some kind of artist? Please.



No...not even close. I think you should refresh yourself on evolutionary theory.



That is irrelevant. There is evidence for evolutionary processes. There is no evidence for creation.

Kiljan...

I hope you know that Hovind is a fraud.

Didn't you see my first post? I called him a freeloading Tax dodging *******. Plus if I really actually believed him, do you think I'd then be loading the video of him being made a fool on the Ali G show.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]You are right, Lord Condormanius, but that's where the test of faith comes in. . But I could ask the same of the Big Bang theory, I know according to that theory, it happened, just happened, boom, it started, the Universe began, thats basically what the theory is stating. The Big Bang theory can't entirely be proven either, but it is logical to believe that something major must have happened during the early time of the Universe.

The "Big Bang" is not just some story scientists have made up. It's based on evidence - masses of it - that all points to the same conclusion. And it can be "proven" in the scientific usage of that word: ie tested by continued observation. If something were observed that clearly didn't fit with the theory and clearly showed it was wrong, it would be abandoned. That hasn't happened. Everything astronomers and physicists have observed for about 100 years now still points to this theory being correct. So it stays.

That's how science works. No "faith" is involved.

Now let me ask you a question, why do you think the world looks so detailed? Why don't we look like blobs, or why are we even the shapes we are anyway? Well, according to evolution, over time, through a timespan of millions of years, we developed to become what we are today. Don't you think there is a flaw to that theory?

No. And neither do hundreds of thousands of scientists across many interconnected disciplines. I'm getting the strong feeling that you simply don't understand evolution.

For instance, one could ask the question: will a whole pizza become a living, breathing creature by the timespan of several million years? I think it's safe for any of us to say "I don't know," but thats basically what evolution is suggesting.

That is one of the most absurd statements I've seen on this board in months. Please, go and educate yourself on evolution before posting again.

[David Deas]

For instance, one could ask the question: will a whole pizza become a living, breathing creature by the timespan of several million years? I think it's safe for any of us to say "I don't know," but thats basically what evolution is suggesting.

*giggles*

[Kiljan Arslan]

Oh heres a thing from Kent Hovind.

[Scorch]

I believe in intelligent design in some form, whether that design involves evolution or not. I don't think the universe and our uncannily perfect position in the galaxy and universe was the result of some particles spinning in a certain way, and I find it difficult to truly believe that the unfathomably complex workings of our body and brain could have evolved from single-celled organisms by chance. In the end, any theory we come up with will raise more questions than it will answer, at the moment - it really is an issue of personal faith, to an extent.

[Tiwaz]

I believe in intelligent design in some form, whether that design involves evolution or not. I don't think the universe and our uncannily perfect position in the galaxy and universe was the result of some particles spinning in a certain way, and I find it difficult to truly believe that the unfathomably complex workings of our body and brain could have evolved from single-celled organisms by chance. In the end, any theory we come up with will raise more questions than it will answer, at the moment - it really is an issue of personal faith, to an extent.

You are approaching this the wrong way.

You take Earth, it's location and all those conditions, look at how unlikely this was to be true and from there say "this is so insanely unlikely that just this place was here for us to be born that there has to be greater intelligence behind it".

False.

Think about the big picture.

Millions, billions of galaxies in the Universe. Each galaxy has billions and billions of stars. Billions of those stars have planets, billions of planets in every galaxy.

Now, what are the odds that somewhere there is at least one place where stuff just happens to click the right way to have life?
Pretty good actually.

To put it simply, only reason we are here is because things just happened to be right for this planet in huge universal lottery. Different lottery numbers and winning ticket might have been somewhere in Andromeda. Though actually, another winning ticket might BE in Andromeda. It just might be very different from ours.

[Exarch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuVDB1Zxuc8

part 2 of the vid.

hope this is enlightening for a lot of you. i love it.[/COLOR]

[The Good]

No. I don't see it as a flaw at all. Are you one of those people that tries to suggest that the world looks the way it does because God is some kind of artist? Please.

Metaphorically speaking, God is an Artist. But he is much more than that. If you are curious, then feel welcome to private message me.

That is irrelevant. There is evidence for evolutionary processes. There is no evidence for creation.

Evolution seems too much like a theory to be the actual truth. While it's true there isn't much in the way of evidence for Creation, it does bring another point, it requires just as much faith from a believer, as evolution requires from an evolutionist/atheist/agnostic (I guess saying that most agnostics believe in evolution, is going a bit far.). Evolution was first and foremost, a theory. To be honest, not even most of the world's brilliant natural philosophers (ancient terminology for "Scientist," a relatively modern word) could know for sure 100% of how life and the Universe originated.

[The Good]

That is one of the most absurd statements I've seen on this board in months. Please, go and educate yourself on evolution before posting again.

It's only as absurd as the Universe being able to begin in the first place.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

It's only as absurd as the Universe being able to begin in the first place.

And that comment is meaningless. If you really want to be exposed as having no understanding of evolutionary biology, keep posting laughable crap like your "pizza" comment by all means. Otherwise, go here, read and learn.

It sounds like you've been fed a load of Creationist garbage. Ask yourself this - why is it that the only people who believe that evolution isn't true just happen to also be fundamentalists? Co-incidence? :hmmm: