should turkey be allowed into the EU

[paokmam]

i honestly think no. Turkey is another world, they have totally another system, its basically not democracy as we know in west (coz state is controlled by army) they have Islam it doesnt matter if they are atheist because the values are just different not to mention the few radical islamists who live in turkey already

In a few words you told the truth

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

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[Stavroforos]

Actually I do believe more of Russia is considered Europe.

[BuchVecny]

lol modern life... i laughed out loud... too bad i agree with you and no russia aint europe it aint asia... its just erm
russia

[paokmam]

From your map you excluded have of the aegean sea which is greek!
And there is no macedonia state. It is calles FYROM

[BuchVecny]

From your map you excluded have of the aegean sea which is greek!
And there is no macedonia state. It is calles FYROM

obviously his line goes through states too.

[paokmam]

obviously his line goes through states too.

lines...it's difficult to draw lines...

[Stavroforos]

Crap, looks like Rodos is part of Turkey.

Also, Cyprus is in the EU. The free part of it at least.

[paokmam]

Crap, looks like Rodos is part of Turkey.

Also, Cyprus is in the EU. The free part of it at least.

You are absolutely right!This map is inaccurate(at least)

[Ummagumma]

Papua New Guinea, Easter Island, Chile, the Antarctic and possibly even the US could join for all I care. I'm not so sure about France though....

[The Prophet]

Crap, looks like Rodos is part of Turkey.

Also, Cyprus is in the EU. The free part of it at least.

I thought Rhodes was part of Greece...

[Stavroforos]

I thought Rhodes was part of Greece...

It is, hence my amusement with the map.

[The Prophet]

That map is inaccurate since the eastern boundaries of Europe are geographically the Ural Mountains. The Ural Mountains start south at the north end of the Caspian and go all the way north.

So the north caucasian region (ossetia, chechnya, daghestan etc..) are considered European. Like wise parts of Kazakhstan are considered Euroepan also.

[Lord Consul]

Turkey is not exactly European. But neither is Cyprus. Yet Cyprus is a member of the European Union.

I actually think that they only allowed Cyprus membership so they could use its territorial disputes with Turkey to prevent the latter from joining the Union.

[Richard]

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Europe ends in Russia at the Caucasus I believe.

[CyberFist]

There is no "yes" or "no", really. When Turkey convinces enough European nations that it should be able to join, then it will get its wish. It is up to Turkey to step up to the plate, not up to Europe to step down and just pretend or imagine that Asia Minor is not Asia, but in fact Europe. How long has the Hellespont been a dividing line between cultures, and beliefs, and governmental systems? At least 2,500 years that I know of. And all other human movement from "East", has caused nothing but strife in the "West" (look at the Balkans). And probably vice-versa.

But hey, at the end of the day I don't belong to either Bloc. But I believe it is up to one Bloc to invite, not a member of another Bloc to attempt to force and intimidate. FFS, it should be easier for the Turks to recreate the Ottoman Empire than it should be for them to join the EU, just going by historical precedent.

[jo the greek]

turkey is Kemalistic state
and for me kemalism is near to facism and nazism
it suports nationalist that revently had attacked a greek journalist
killed christian bible traders attavkted the offices of africans in Instabul attacked some Patriarhic buildings.
For me turkey may allowed to enter but without kemalists
and the most succesfull i heard about turkey is

KEMALIST DO NOT WANT TURKEY TO ENTER EU BUT EU ENTER TURKEY.

[Torment]

If politicians really relied on populism and sentiment the UK would have left the EU long ago by now. As far as the UK parliament is concerned, the national interest will always override the petty concerns mentioned above. PC considerations and its racist country cousins should not feature in ECOFIN and other serious EU fora. Money and wealth creation does. The bottom line is this...is it good for business and does it provide positive benefits for most of not it all member states? If there are no quick wins, then the painful horse trading process has to sort things out.

Well, that's where balancing comes into play, isn't it? I never said politicians relied on populism. They simply don't ignore it. The fact many Englismen aren't too keen on the EU is very much visible in the international politics of the UK. Just because the government doesn't immediatly opt for the most extreme choice, doesn't negate that fact. Popular sentiment always affects politicians choices, in small and big ways. And it always will. Whether it gradually changes politics over decades or changes the political playingfield in a matter of years (something we can see today), it's always going to leave its mark. Politicians are always going to adept to people's desires. If possible by integrating it into their own political program, if necessary they might even change their political program. But ignoring it is going to lose them votes, which is something no sane politician in a democracy can accept.

And it's not even just popular sentiment that can be petty, politicians are quite good at it as well. You think practically all of eastern Europe joining the EU in less than a decade is good bussiness? The only thing Poland and its comrades have to offer so far is a large labourpool, and since there are currently no vast labourshortages within the EU, that hardly counts as a valid enough reason. No, the reason we're trying to assimillate the east so fastly is really the same why politicians are trying to create constitutions and institutions we don't need: petty idealism. Somehow they find the idea of a singular, political block in Europe appealing. Pragmatically speaking it's an utterly ridiculous idea with an invariably very undesirable outcome, but pragmatism is simply not the only force at work in politics.

[Каие]

Turkey is not part of Europe as Australia is not part of Asia.

again talking about turkey

but the point is why should they be allowed to join despit not being part of europe and it would allow them and terrorists into britain.

No because Turkey is in Asia minor not Europe plus I don't like the extension of the E.U to more states.
EU should be stoped at 10/15 states and not 27 states like now.

No, out of the simple premise that Turkey is not a European nation.

lol, If Turkey is not in Europe, why is Cyprus?

So because they invaded Europe two billion times we should count them as European? Sorry, but by that logic we oughta call Moroccans European too. After all, it was their ancestors who created Andalusia...

As for my stance on this particular issue: hell to the no.

My bad, everyone who lives in Europe today popped up out of the ground as soon as the earth was created and have remained there ever since.



Here are the reasons Turkey is not allowed into Europe.
Religion. (More secular than the UK)
They would get the second largest number of MEP's due to population.
Article 301. (They are changing it)
Cyprus. (They agreed on unification so did the EU and so did the Turkish Cypriots, however the Greek Cypriots refused)
Womens rights. (18 mps in 1935 when rest of europe alot of women didn't even have teh vote)
Human Rights. (Torture camps operated by the CIA through European countries)

[mongrel]

Well, that's where balancing comes into play, isn't it? I never said politicians relied on populism. They simply don't ignore it. The fact many Englismen aren't too keen on the EU is very much visible in the international politics of the UK. Just because the government doesn't immediatly opt for the most extreme choice, doesn't negate that fact. Popular sentiment always affects politicians choices, in small and big ways. And it always will. Whether it gradually changes politics over decades or changes the political playingfield in a matter of years (something we can see today), it's always going to leave its mark. Politicians are always going to adept to people's desires. If possible by integrating it into their own political program, if necessary they might even change their political program. But ignoring it is going to lose them votes, which is something no sane politician in a democracy can accept.

And it's not even just popular sentiment that can be petty, politicians are quite good at it as well. You think practically all of eastern Europe joining the EU in less than a decade is good bussiness? The only thing Poland and its comrades have to offer so far is a large labourpool, and since there are currently no vast labourshortages within the EU, that hardly counts as a valid enough reason. No, the reason we're trying to assimillate the east so fastly is really the same why politicians are trying to create constitutions and institutions we don't need: petty idealism. Somehow they find the idea of a singular, political block in Europe appealing. Pragmatically speaking it's an utterly ridiculous idea with an invariably very undesirable outcome, but pragmatism is simply not the only force at work in politics.

@ Torment
Prodigy and Heineken, excellent mix!

I can only speak for UK politicians. I think I can safely say that this government is utterly disinterested in popular sentiment when considering EU matters. With our government being highly centralised the Prime Minister calls the shots, sets the red lines with his ministers and officials scouring EU policy documents looking for "quick wins". I spent two years in EU finance policy work, including the recent UK Presidency. I can't say that public sentiment featured in any of the hundreds of policy documents I had the pleasure to read.

EU expansion good for business? My views are unimportant, but the British Chamber of Commerce seems to think so (source)