Strategies aganist Full phalanx armies...

[HeroSK]

Hi..

I am currently playing a pontus campaign..an macedon flood Anatolia with stacks..I killed almost 10 of them but they keep coming..

The most hard part is, macedon armies are all phalanx infantry..rarely they have some javelin armed light infantry..

My armies is contain mainly pezoi, some light infantry for flanks and some cavalry to catch the routed enemy..

AI deploy his army as a huge long line..and it is very hard to out flank them...

Any idea how to defeat massive armies of phalanxes..?

[MasterOfThessus]

Try to force them to break the battle line and then take the phalanxes down one by one

[^Gr8^Xander]

First kill the general, then flank them, and while they're fighting, charge them in the back with any units you have. Phalanx infantry routes fast, especially if they're without a general.
And when they route, it's slaughter time..

[phalangite]

First kill the general, then flank them, and while they're fighting, charge them in the back with any units you have. Phalanx infantry routes fast, especially if they're without a general.
And when they route, it's slaughter time..

This is the best stratigie I have used although I dont get the general right away. As long as you have good SWORD units, not spear, and you charge their back while you have Spear units in front. You need to have spear units in front for the maks to not turn around and kill your infantry behind, if you have tough phalanxes that will suit, just keep the enemy phalanxes busy and hit their backs with swordsmen, usually the enemy wont turn around to defend themselves so one stab at their backs and their, when I play roman i use the triarii to attack the front and hastati and princeps to attack their back, but Ihave found cavalry to work even better, because they frighten foot soldiers and they get a charge bonus, and in my experience about 3-6 seconds after cavalry hit their backs they run like cowards.

[Juvenal]

Sadly the A.I. doesn't know how to handle phalanx units properly.

The correct system with phalangites is to form a single unbroken line (plus reserve). The A.I. will initially form a line (obeying its battle formation rules), but when individual units start to target your units, they each go their own way.

Once a phalanx unit is on its own it is easily flanked. Also the A.I. leaves its units in phalanx mode even when they have a pressing need to move fast.

So your tactics should be to present a thin line of skirmishers for the A.I. to target and put most of your effort into the flanking force. I generally avoid engaging enemy phalanxes from the front until I am ready to flank them.

By having a battle line of skirmishers, you can concentrate on micro-managing the destruction of individual enemy phalanx units without worrying too much about the skirmishers.

PS. It is essential to kill any enemy cavalry first, otherwise you will have skirmishers and archers scattering to the four winds while you aren't looking.

[^Gr8^Xander]

Or just hire some elephants...


(Though it's a ''wtf?'' why they didn't got any experience. You'd say they would become pretty veteran after killing 2000 greeks, ah well...)

Nah, using skirmishers, especially those on horses, flanking/charging from behind, killing their general, a good line-up, using the environment (trees), the map (height differences) and artillery [as romans only?], should be very helpfull in beating those Macedons.

[HeroSK]

Here "Macedonian Horde" or "Black Death"

It seems they only focused on me..





I didnot capture two of Seleucid cities, they are protecting me and slower the Egytians..



Thanks for answers btw, and please post more any info can be helpful

[pannonian]

Deploy your army en echelon. Hammer one side while the other side hangs back, in the vicinity to threaten but not actively engaging.

[HeroSK]

It is easy to to trap enemy general with fast spear armed infantry and ı usually do that..

Deploy your army en echelon. Hammer one side while the other side hangs back, in the vicinity to threaten but not actively engaging.

You mean what Alexander did in Gaugamela..




I was thinking that method for a while..I am suspicious about that the unit at the top of echelon that probably will be out numbered..but I will try it anyway..

I am also fighting wiht Seleucids at the same time. However, They are not so much problem since I already occupued Antioch and neighboring cities, Also I captured Bybalon and now Selecua is under siege...

Last time in one of my battles aganis Seleucids, I pinned a phalanx unit with my pezoi and quickly bring my galatian spears behind them and made them warcry just behind of enemy unit and all unit routed immediately

Thanks for replys please keep them coming..

[pannonian]

You mean what Alexander did in Gaugamela..

I was thinking that method for a while..I am suspicious about that the unit at the top of echelon that probably will be out numbered..but I will try it anyway..

The side that is engaging will be outnumbering the enemy, while the side that hangs back will be left weak. Engage the extreme flank with your anvil, before your mobile hammer goes round the back to deliver the active blow. If your weaker flank has to fight, it will lose, but that's why it hangs back out of range.

If you can break into Thrace, hire as many Thracian infantry as you can. They are the best hammer infantry around, and cheap.

[HeroSK]

Here my army, and I already hired all Trachians avalaible...

[Solaris]

Yeah, and it's handy that AI phalanxes are quite happy to sit there whilst you slowly erode one side of their army.

[Solaris]

I see you took a lot of casualties from your cavalry.

Only charge when the enemy troops are low on morale.. i.e. wavering.

And normally only confront enemy cav. when they've engaged your infantry.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Here's my advice: Read the book 'The Virtues of War' by Steven Pressfield. Emulate the tactics within. Rinse. Repeat.

[Mr_Ace]

The Phalanx requires itself to be on stable and suitable ground for it to stand its ground, plus it needs to maintain their formation to be in a formidable position. Phalanx units are necessary to stay together to maintain their power. Once they slip away into different directions, separated, they are most likely vulnerable from any attack.

Force them to direct themselves into unsuitable territory, most likely a sloped and angled ground, coming uphill towards you. And break their formation and have them come at you one at a time. The problem with the phalanx is, once it loses its formation, it is quite difficult to maneuver around to regain its line.

So either take them out, whilst they are attempting to slowly regain their formation or lure them with cavalry, so they are separated and loosened and not bunched up. Sometimes one phalanx unit cannot resist the temptation to follow a cavalry unit and when it does, that is what breaks the phalanx's strength of maintaining its formation.

Of course this requires your army to have at least a few cavalry, skirmishing, and flanking units. Flanking a phalanx unit at all sides, whilst it is engaged in the front, is essential in defeating it.

[Warmaker]

As Pontus, going to-to-toe with your own Phalangites against Macedonian ones is usually a losing effort.

Take less Phalanx units and bring more Skirmishers and Cavalry.

Have your Phalangites form up in deep formations for staying power. Form your Skirmishers behind and to the flanks. Your Cavalry, to the extreme flank(s).

Goals:

1) Easier to let the enemy come to you, but if advancing, advance carefully with your army still maintaining cohesion.
2) Do not let your Skirmishers attack until later.
3) Use Cavalry to screen away enemy Skirmishers, preferrably using only Lt.Cav. Save Heavy Cavalry for the critical point.
4) Allow your deeply formed Phalangites to absorb the attacks. Since you've taken far less Phalangites than the Macedonians, you don't have much time. Plus, Macedonian Phalangites are higher quality than yours.
5) Once the enemy Skirmishers are pushed away from step 3, with your own Skirmishers posted on the flanks, send them around the enemy's own flanks, or if time is allowed, to the rear of their main battle lines. Once positioned, let loose. Javelins to the rear / flanks are devastating and will quickly break enemy morale.
6) Enemy Cavalry pose a threat to your own Skirmishers and Phalangites if attacked from the flank or rear. Counter the Cavalry movements / attacks with your own Skirmishers and Cavalry, allowing the Skirmishers to bear the brunt of the attack. Your own Skirmishers will take casualties, but the now engaged enemy Cavalry are highly vulnerable to your own Cavalry's countercharge.
7) Hopefully by this time, your own Cavalry are now in a position to contribute to the final blow by smashing into the rear / flank of the enemy's main line (including your surviving Skirmishers).

Some other points:
- You may also consider replacing a few of the Skirmishers with cheap, fast moving Spearmen / Warband type of units, to make excellent fodder against Cavalry. They will accompany your Skirmishers on the flanks.
- With missile attacks, preferrably attack the Phalangite lines' flank or rear. Pike formations can withstand missile fire pretty well frontally.

[MadmanSam]

Very good advice.

Listen to Warmaker.

The only improvement I could suggest would be to replace most of your javelin skirmishers with longer ranged units, ideally Cretan archers. Fire arrows are not as effective as javelins at breaking morale, but the longer range more than makes up for it. Plus, you can now slaughter enemy skirmishers from a safe distance without risking your cavalry, or just weaken them for a quick rout by your cavalry.

Swordsmen attacking from the rear are great, especially Roman swordsmen, but they'll often cause the enemy to fight to the death instead of a clean rout.

Edit: Sort of beaten. Oh well.

[G_the_Great]

I don't think you need a very big army to cause havoc in the macedonian heartlands. I reckon that 2 or 3 half stacks should be able to take and hold the peninsula (and probably athens as well) within 3 turns. In that little time then you cut off a decent amount of their income (which then flows to you) and cause them to divert their armies. Hireing mercs will help you sustain your position there until you feel they need reinforcements.
Another thing to do is to stop them trading. Trade is the single largest source of income in the Aegean so stopping the Selucids, Ptolomatics and Macedonians using their ports will hurt them badly. You don't need large fleets, just 2 or 3 ligth afracts (or whatever they are called) and if you cut enough ports then you can demolish their income. The area around Judea is also very valuable for water trade.
Finally, if you can't get through with armies, send a bazillion spies and assassins. A character is more easily assassinated in a settlement with many of your spies in it. Use that (and the available captains) to train up rank 10 assassins to kill off their family members.
You could also bribe any random family members they have lying around, you look like you have enough money.
BTW try not to accumulate too much money or your family members start accumulating corrupt traits.

Hope that helps.