Live and Let Die

[Irishman]

Sorry Mr. McCartney for the plagiarism,

Anyways, lately I have been thinking. Is it always the best course of action to die for the one you love. Let me provide a situation, and this will be very specific, as it is the only moral issue I wish to discuss in this thread.

Assume you, and the one you love deeply, say your wife, are approached by a stranger. He gives you one option, saying that one of you MUST die. There is no hope, one of you will die. And you are given a choice of who.

Note that this is different than losing your life in an attempt to save someone, because there is a possibility of both living. I want to restrict this to one person HAS to die.

Would it be the selfless, ethical thing to give up your life for your loved one? Certainly this is the most common sentiment, and is often seen as the greatest sacrifice.

But in this case, it seems to me that it would be harder to live after the love of your life is gone, than to die and get it over with. It may be my atheistic disbelief in an afterlife, but it seems that the real sacrifice would be to let the other person die, and to live your life without them. This is, of course, assuming that this person is deeply in love with you, and you are with them.

So what do you think? I can see arguments for both (the old Greek Heracles story comes to mind) but what do you think?

[Gary88]

my natural urge used to be that i would gladly die for the life of my partner, however my fiance has told me several times that she hopes she dies first because the pain of living without me would be too much. because of that i would gladly live for my fiance.

[Irishman]

See I have the same problem. I WOULD die for her, but she has told me the same thing, that she couldn't live without me. I don't know if that is just a temporary thing though, the only problem I see is that death is SO final.

I guess for me I would do either, as I cannot see a clearly moral choice, but I was wondering if anyone here favored one or the other.

[Skyler]

I would most likely give my live for the woman I love, without much hesitation.

Although I value my life, the guilt of letting her die would be too much for me, it would result in a downward spiral perhaps much more worse than my initial death.

But the great kicker would be if she would do the same for me.

Given that the human survival instinct could kick in at any given time in such a situation, there is no way to forsee if the experience will be satifactory (which will result in a sacrafice, with the purest of intentions) or a disilusional eyeopener.

The thing is, if you choose to sacrifice yourself for the one you love, do you intent to do so to let her live a happy life, one in which she could choose to forget you and start all over again?

[Gary88]

Although I value my life, the guilt of letting her die would be too much for me, it would result in a downward spiral perhaps much more worse than my initial death.

exactly why i wouldn't want her to go through that.

[mocker]

Simple:
One of us has to die, so I let the stranger die.

[Skyler]

Simple:
One of us has to die, so I let the stranger die.

We are all strangers on one level or another.

We don't need to be family to not feel or have a bond, to not feel estranged.

In this case it is your hypotetical or real lover, which you... love very, very dearly.

[Mathias]

Certainly, dieing for the one I love would be the easy way out, as I have no fear of dieing. Losing the love of my life on the other hand would be unbearable (I don't have a girlfriend, but I'm just guessing how I would feel, something which I'm quite good at).
If she loves me as much as I love her, I assume she would feel the same way, and then the greatest sacrifice would be to let her die.

[HopliteElite]

Any person that honestly believes they would simply die for a person they feel they love is mentally unstable in my mind and should either be medicated or vigorously treated. Love is the worst delusion facing mankind and should be treated as a mental illness, not a feeling worth chasing. The fact that some can even say they would die for the one they love shows me that some allow these delusional sentimental feelings to become destructive. I guess this explains my answer which is "no" I would never die for anything in life under the circumstances given by the op, especially for feelings stemming from a mental illness like love.

[Mathias]

Any person that honestly believes they would simply die for a person they feel they love is mentally unstable in my mind and should either be medicated or vigorously treated. Love is the worst delusion facing mankind and should be treated as a mental illness, not a feeling worth chasing. The fact that some can even say they would die for the one they love shows me that some allow these delusional sentimental feelings to become destructive. I guess this explains my answer which is "no" I would never die for anything in life under the circumstances given by the op, especially for feelings stemming from a mental illness like love.

But love can make you happy, and what more can one ask for than happiness, even if it does come through a "mental illness"?
On the other hand, it might destroy you.

[Justice and Mercy]

Ethically either course of action works.

Personally, there's no way in hell I'd choose for my spouse to die.

[Mathias]

Ethically either course of action works.

Personally, there's no way in hell I'd choose for my spouse to die.

And that is why it is the greatest sacrifice. It is what is most harmful to you, not your spouse.
The thought of your love dieing seems so unbearable that your own death seems like nothing in comparison. The dilemma is though, that she feels the same way, in which case, for her, the best thing would be to let her die.

[kev-o]

Interesting dilemma.

:hm: Tough to make a choice like that.

[Dayman]

I would clearly lay down my life for the sake of one of my family or good friends.

While I'm dead, and would no not of what they would think of it, I could never allow someone to die in my stead.

[Irishman]

Any person that honestly believes they would simply die for a person they feel they love is mentally unstable in my mind and should either be medicated or vigorously treated. Love is the worst delusion facing mankind and should be treated as a mental illness, not a feeling worth chasing. The fact that some can even say they would die for the one they love shows me that some allow these delusional sentimental feelings to become destructive. I guess this explains my answer which is "no" I would never die for anything in life under the circumstances given by the op, especially for feelings stemming from a mental illness like love.

I dont know what kind of "love" you are so against, but if I may say, I think you are fighting an uphill battle here. Billions of people over thousands of years have felt this great sense of compassion. Not just for a sexual partner, but the same love is felt for family, friends and (of the best of us) for strangers on the street.

Love is something to be cultivated, a great sense of compassion for all, and just because you cannot (or have not) fostered these relationships or feelings does not mean they do not exist.

I would gladly die or live for my family, friends or partner. I have not yet reached a point of compassion in which I would do this for a stranger (and dont know if I ever will) but I try.

And that is why it is the greatest sacrifice. It is what is most harmful to you, not your spouse.

A thing to think about (If I may play devil's advocate). Death is permanent. And while losing the one you love is very difficult (perhaps the most difficult trail of a person's character) it is not permanent. Is there reason to think that dieing is the right choice because it allows them to find happiness? Or is the opposite true, in that there is no gaurantee that your loved one will be happy.

[Mathias]

A thing to think about (If I may play devil's advocate). Death is permanent. And while losing the one you love is very difficult (perhaps the most difficult trail of a person's character) it is not permanent. Is there reason to think that dieing is the right choice because it allows them to find happiness? Or is the opposite true, in that there is no gaurantee that your loved one will be happy.

Suffering is certain, happiness is a perhaps. Whether the possibility that there will be no happiness for your loved one, only suffering, makes the prevention of both the best option though, is a tough question indeed. I don't view death as a bad thing for the person who dies, as they are no longer able to feel anything, and thus cannot miss their life or be saddened by losing it, so, for me, the most selfless act would actually be to let my loved one die. Death is only horrible to those who experience it, and only those who are close to someone who dies does that.

[Dracula]

Assume you, and the one you love deeply, say your wife, are approached by a stranger. He gives you one option, saying that one of you MUST die. There is no hope, one of you will die. And you are given a choice of who.

Note that this is different than losing your life in an attempt to save someone, because there is a possibility of both living. I want to restrict this to one person HAS to die.

The question is useless as such situation cannot happen in reality .A killer may approach you ,but there can't be a chance that he'll need one of you dead and one alife .He can't also need your choice for anything .So the question is as worth as "what is love with a marsian ?'

If after all such a situation occurs,then the both partners,being in love ,will desire to die .And from love will desire to offer their life instead of the other person's . That is how,the final choice will be of the killer ..And if one of the both partners resigns from the competition of death ,then he doesn't have love . That can make the sacrifice also useless . So let the killer/fate/god deside .

[Felixion]

This isn't hard. I care about the collective. I care about the whole. I care about the world. That being the case I would have to fight my selfish urge to save those I love and understand that my continued existence is what is best for everyone on the planet. So, I would have to let her die...

I'm kidding. I'd take a machete to the forehead for my girl without hesitation.

[infernocanuck]

A saying from a popular book (that many people like to bash, understandably) goes that there is "no greater love, then to lay down your life for a friend". And, who is a greater friend then the person you cherish most in this world? I subscribe to this, as do pretty much all these other posters.

But to answer your question more specifically, it appears the trade off is facing death and painlessness, or facing life with substantial suffering. I'm going to put forward two points reinforcing the idea that sacrificing yourself, in this circumstance is still the bravest and selfless option.

First, I'll delve into a little social psychology. It may seem a bit cold, and please, forgive me, but people who loose loved ones do not suffer chronically, unceasingly for the rest of their lives. If I lost my wife, at the time, it is reasonable to think that I will never be happy ever again. I picture myself living in emotional agony for decades. This, however, is not the case. This is -not- to say that your life will not change, and you will be immune to the grief of your loved one. What I am saying, however, is that you will, more then likely, find some happiness in your life and your suffering will subside. It may take years, but it won't last forever.

Secondly is the concept of death. I can only say one logical fact. We have -no- idea what happens when we die. Others can make some pretty good inferences, but ultimately, we are clueless. Therefore, it is a fallacy to assume that dying is just "getting it over with".

In fact, a person who is choosing to die in this circumstance is facing an unknown. A very scary unknown. So, the choice, I argue, actually is this:

Live, knowing that you will still be able to experience your very existence, albeit with substantial grief due to this life-changing event, or die, facing the void, the unknown, the loss of consciousness and life.

To face the unknown, to face death, and offer your loved one the ability to still exist, to live and laugh (eventually) is a precious, selfless gift. It is an interesting question to bring up, Irish, but I stand by this conclusion.

[rez]

I do not believe i could let the hypothetical lover die for me. In that very moment I do not think could even imagine considering the benefits of living through the grief for her. I would be far more focused on the here and the now of the situation. I.E. One person gets death the other gets to leave. If I truly loved someone I'd bite the bullet.

Were I allowed the opportunity to calmly and rationally assess the situation I think I would still make the sacrifice. The knowledge that I let her die would be enough for me to send myself howling after her toute suite anyway. I know I wouldn't be able to handle it but theres a chance she could and go on to live a fulfilling life with someone else.

Theres also the fact that I find it hard to believe a woman could get attached enough to me to never be able to get over my sacrifice. But thats just me.

Alternatively, since the options are so hazy theres always the good old choice of tossing a coin.

I should think the gravity of the situation juxtaposed with such a trivial means of determining the outcome rather funny.