Rules in War?

[{BHC}AntiWarmanCake8]

Hey,


Hope this fits well into this part of the fourm.


Do you think there should be Rules in War, eg:Geneva Convention, or do you think a country should do what it takes to get the job done?

[Domnul Ceaşcă]

I personally do what it takes to get the job done. The Geneva Convetion brings this 2 letters in my mind that make up 2 words, BS. And to firmly answer the question, NO! There should be no rules in war. (apparently, there aren`t any rules, and by not being, i mean, they are not always respected)

[Sebdeas]

NO! There should be no rules in war.

So civilians should be massacred, nukes should be used, POW's should be starved?

You just shouldn't do anything that is possible.

[Domnul Ceaşcă]

So civilians should be massacred, nukes should be used, POW's should be starved?

You just shouldn't do anything that is possible.

Pacts, yes, rules no! Civilians get massacred everyday. POW`s should be treated as the captors see fit. You don`t just start thwrowing nukes at someone. Nukes will probably only be used for intimidation purposes.

[Idwayreth]

Everyone likes to play nice as long as they're winning.

[Dayman]

We've come along way to far to not have rules for war. I guess if you were ever drafted, you would revoke those statements ASAP. There is no legitimate reason that in this day and age, that we cannot agree to respect the dignity of POWs or non-combatants. You have no legitimate reason for you ideas.

[Ummagumma]

Of course there should be rules of war. To deny the rules of war would be detestable to any right-minded individual. Christian or not, it is a good thing to treat others how you would have them treat you. To deny the rules of war would make a mockery of every war crimes trial that has ever occurred. The days of raping and pillaging should be long forgotten - for most places in the world. Desperate times may call for desperate measures, but there should always be standards of behaviour. (Yes, I also disagree with the UK and US governments treatment of 'non-combatants'.. If they are non-combatants, then they should be tried in a Civil court, not held in legal limbo - though I'm sure they see themselves as part of some army or force.. it's just we don't recognise it's authority/existence, therefore Military tribunals...).

[Domnul Ceaşcă]

Christian or not, it is a good thing to treat others how you would have them treat you.

Correct. That`s what i ment by "The captors should treat them as they see fit".

war crimes

How do you define that, "war crimes" ?

The days of raping and pillaging should be long forgotten - for most places in the world.

Well either we all play by the same rules or we don`t.

there should always be standards of behaviour

Yes, but you don`t need "Geneva Convention" for that.

[Bokks]

It's quite shocking to me that so many here would so easily and thoughtlessly throw away any possibility of order that would exist from a recognized set of Rules of War, it proves to me that few here have actually fought in a conflict, and due to the high tensions in the world today the only possible outcome is that in 20 years there will be another great war that will make anything any of us have previously fought look like a game of marbles.
You need rules of war, because you need a standard for conduct. You need accountability, and justice. War is an incredibly injudicial institution, it is true, but there does need to be some standard that all civilized countries adhere to for them to define themselves as civilized.
The Geneva conventions themselves are a bunch of bollocks, in my opinion. They are outdated, Western oriented (hee, that would be "Occidental Orientation"... funny to me) and just bug me. But their purpose is crystalline; they are an institution to try to keep peace in an institutionally unpeaceful act.
None-the-less, there has to be rules for armies to adhere to, so that at least some decency is served. You can win a war by murdering POWs, raping women and brain-washing children much easier than you can to feed POWs, watch your men and keep children separate, but then what win would that serve? Such rules are meant to promote common decency as well as to preserve our own humanity.

Well either we all play by the same rules or we don`t.

That is a great point, when US soldiers first moved into Iraq, there was a general order that any Iraqi who should want to surrender should be allowed to peacefully. Afterwards the first of what the world would call Iraqi insurgents strode to international caravans waving white flags, and when allied soldiers approached these insurgents threw down their peace flags and pulled out concealed weapons, surprising and therefore easily killing American and allied soldiers when they were following orders to peacefully welcome surrendering forces. The Geneva convention there was broken force, and it was broken because there was no-longer an Iraqi chain of command to regulate forces but instead individual insurgents who took advantage of a soft spot. Because of this Americans started to "bend" then outright break parts of the conventions themselves; not their fault, but a necessary response when they started fighting an enemy that would not themselves follow the same rule.
Those rules are still needed, however, otherwise when an Iraqi really does want to surrender so that he could hug his children again will simply be mowed down in indifference.

[Nellup]

I think it just shows how low humanity has become:
A) even in this day and age, with our technology, we still feel the need to fight each other.
B) When fighting for a legitimate reason (such as to get rid of a tyrant), we need to make up rules to govern our behaviour, instead of doing the decent thing of our own accord.

[LSJ]

Instead of being gassed to death you are killed by carpet bombing. Oh joy, they obeyed the rules on how to murder me.

Its great to have laws for peacetime, such as no planting land mines, gathering chemical weapons etc. But when war comes along you aren't gonna give a **** about the rules if your life is in danger. No one in that circumstance would.

[Bovril]

I cannot see how anyone who thinks morality exists could not approve of rules of war.

[infernocanuck]

I argue that there should only one rule of war: Don't engage in it.

[ProneStar!]

I think it just shows how low humanity has become:
A) even in this day and age, with our technology, we still feel the need to fight each other.
B) When fighting for a legitimate reason (such as to get rid of a tyrant), we need to make up rules to govern our behaviour, instead of doing the decent thing of our own accord.

I argue that there should only one rule of war: Don't engage in it.

i was going to write a long diatribe, but i dont feel like wasting time and words trying to get the point across to people that already made up their minds on the issue so i'll leave you with this: lol

[Icefrisco]

There should be a few rules but people must remember that war is war and that war is hell. If countries acted like pussies in the most critical of times the world might be in a lot worse condition.

What if Sherman didnt 'march to the sea'?
What if the Americans didnt firebomb Tokyo?

[Domnul Ceaşcă]

Should we fight war? No, it's a deplorable state of society, and it seems like the people who die from war are the last people who should. But we definately shouldn't fight a war with no-holds-barred, all that does is make a bad situation horrendous.

Stop being a self-righteous uncle Tom.

fingernails ripped out or your toes cut off at the jounts

This kind of human phenomena will always happen, regardless of the "rules of war" or the "Geneva Convention".

your wife and children won't be raped by a 30 mile long line of men who have just sacked your city

This will also happen continuously regardless of occupiers, invaders, rules, race, country, etc.

What if the Americans didnt firebomb Tokyo?

Then instead of just 30.000 dead japs, there would`ve been 60.000 dead americans and 30.000 dead japs. (i don`t know the exact estimates, since fanaticism is a hard factor to balance)

[Bokks]

Stop being a self-righteous uncle Tom.

Uncle Tom?
But I'm not black... Actually I'm not sure if I could get any whiter...

This kind of human phenomena will always happen, regardless of the "rules of war" or the "Geneva Convention".

No, I disagree. Should there be a common census that such acts are horrendous and unspeakable I doubt any one would think to use it.
They'd go for pubic hair!

This will also happen continuously regardless of occupiers, invaders, rules, race, country, etc.

Oh shoot, I;m sorry I forgot which of my points this was a response to... rape? No, that also would be phased out if there was a strict chain of command and real wars on both sides. Even with the televised sodomy having been filmed in certain American prisons there have been far more instances of rape having occured by UN peace keeping forces. Why? because the UN PK thinks that they're above everyone, and so have a loose chain of command.

Then instead of just 30.000 dead japs, there would`ve been 60.000 dead americans and 30.000 dead japs. (i don`t know the exact estimates, since fanaticism is a hard factor to balance)

Well over a million on both sides, actually. Preliminary expectations saw all of south Japan getting annihilated and about 1-2 million marines having been lost in the push.

And Thanatos, you haven't seriously joined this band wagon, have you? I thought you were in the SEALs!


edit

strict chain of command and real wars on both sides

I didn't mean to type that, but I can't remember what I did mean, so you'll just have to trust me...

[Domnul Ceaşcă]

Uncle Tom?
But I'm not black... Actually I'm not sure if I could get any whiter...

It doesn`t matter if your white, black, blue, brown (pink?).

Criticising falsehood!!

Mansa musa has this obssesion, that Allah want`s him to critcise poeple at the TWC.

we all don't follow Islam and the teachings of Muhammad it doesn't make us atheists.

It makes us heretics.

[Bokks]

It doesn`t matter if your white, black, blue, brown (pink?).

Yeah, but an Uncle Tom is a "black" man who adheres to the "white" mans ways...

Mansa musa has this obssesion, that Allah want`s him to critcise poeple at the TWC.

The TWC is included in the Five Pillars of Islam? I don't remember that...

It makes us heretics.

I was going to say "infidels"

@Thanatos
My man!! You're not just there to kill people, the USAForces want to limit the killing by instating order. Rules in war also organizes the whole expendature, you're not there to kill children! Not to rape women! Yes, kill people, but only those who are there to kill you!
"Don't Fire until Fired Upon", or don't they still relay that order? That Rule of War?

[kev-o]

There has never been a war were any side followed "the rules." A program a while back on the History channel presented a two hour special on unconventional warfare, starting with the mythical Trojan war and the use of the Trojan horse all the way to 9/11. Every culture has practised some form of unconvetional warfare.