ALEXANDER EB

[maksimus]

Something like this
This is a classical example of AI Battle use - when you run at him he will spread and flank you

[chenkai11]

err maksimus..... what are those units being flanked?

[maksimus]

its a classic AI flank maneuver in ALX - I have tested it on custom and at the time I was charged - the whole AI army was in group - but then those two flank units dissolved on the side's and closed mine (offcourse I did it just for the test - in RTW this would hardly ever happen)

[chenkai11]

I mean the unit card

[maksimus]

Oh.. It is tested on ALX EB beta 2 mod that I will hopefully upload tonight..

It is a China unit recruited only in Sulek as mercenary.. and there are China rebels there..

[Admetos]

Um... Wow? Chinese rebels...

[maksimus]

They are from ''China mod'' - they are recruatable as mercenaries (in Sulek only), they spawn as rebels (in Sulek only), and they have benefit prices verses some other hellenic unit but with less armor (but +1 skill for example etc..)..(oh.. and they come in great numbers! )

I will upload the beta 2 mod hopefully tonight ..

[chenkai11]

Great! can't wait.

*I always dream of Ancient China against Ancient Europe*

[maksimus]

BETA 2 is up!


note: this is a release candidate

[Dominatrixx]

Hi mates . I've tried Alexander Extended Mod today and it all looks great to me except units system . I've played EB 1 before just usind Alex.exe and all options needed + "Various tweaks patch" (that one which makes different building costs, income, 0 turn recruitment and other useful stuff). Campaigns were absolutely great (except usually overpowered Ptolemaios, but as i know everyone has that problem in EB 1). But it became boring to start campaign again and know what will happen in next 20-30 turns (i'm playing for Romans only) ans then i saw that Alex mod BETA 2 is released. I've installed it and most of the stuff looks great (new units, new building effects and buildtime, at last big rebels armies roaming the map and guarding rebel cities and e.t.c.) but then i got the same feeling like i had in original EB - money go to minus right from the start, units upkeep is HUGE, and 1 turn recruiment... I can play with this options ok, but AI factions become much more passive and weak. Now if one AI faction get kicked by another 1-2 times seriously it can't hit back like in EB 1 with those tweaks (because now factions have little money + 1 unit in city per turn only). SO for example macedons kicked greeks from Athens and Sparta in about 10-12 turns and grees had only Rhodos left 9with small army in city). In EB 1 with tweaks this wasn't possible - Epeiros, macedons and greeks warred all the time but noone could take a clear win because all of them had huge armies and quie a lot of money. The same situation was with Rome vs. Carthagio - taking of isles were relatively easy but in Africa it was very hard to kick Carthagio because they had eough money to create few units stack every turn to defend thir territory from my raids.
So, the question is - is it possible to return those 0 turn recruitment and lower upkeeps for this mod (because i really like it and except those few bad things it feels much better than just EB 1 with Alex.exe)?
P.S. I cam make it myself usind descr_units.txt for example but i fear that i cam create some disbalance because this mod ovewrites almost all EB files, not only those for buildings and units...

[maksimus]

Hi mates . I've tried Alexander Extended Mod today and it all looks great to me except units system . I've played EB 1 before just usind Alex.exe and all options needed + "Various tweaks patch" (that one which makes different building costs, income, 0 turn recruitment and other useful stuff). Campaigns were absolutely great (except usually overpowered Ptolemaios, but as i know everyone has that problem in EB 1). But it became boring to start campaign again and know what will happen in next 20-30 turns (i'm playing for Romans only) ans then i saw that Alex mod BETA 2 is released. I've installed it and most of the stuff looks great (new units, new building effects and buildtime, at last big rebels armies roaming the map and guarding rebel cities and e.t.c.) but then i got the same feeling like i had in original EB - money go to minus right from the start, units upkeep is HUGE, and 1 turn recruiment... I can play with this options ok, but AI factions become much more passive and weak. Now if one AI faction get kicked by another 1-2 times seriously it can't hit back like in EB 1 with those tweaks (because now factions have little money + 1 unit in city per turn only). SO for example macedons kicked greeks from Athens and Sparta in about 10-12 turns and grees had only Rhodos left 9with small army in city). In EB 1 with tweaks this wasn't possible - Epeiros, macedons and greeks warred all the time but noone could take a clear win because all of them had huge armies and quie a lot of money. The same situation was with Rome vs. Carthagio - taking of isles were relatively easy but in Africa it was very hard to kick Carthagio because they had eough money to create few units stack every turn to defend thir territory from my raids.
So, the question is - is it possible to return those 0 turn recruitment and lower upkeeps for this mod (because i really like it and except those few bad things it feels much better than just EB 1 with Alex.exe)?
P.S. I cam make it myself usind descr_units.txt for example but i fear that i cam create some disbalance because this mod ovewrites almost all EB files, not only those for buildings and units...

Well, I can say that I wanted to make lower upkeep and more money in general for Human and AI.. but it was a call of the other ALXEB members.. can you post screenshots of progression in your EB beta 2 campaign even if you only test..?! :hmmm:

And I havent had the time to test much (which I did for beta 1)

I hope that overpowered Ptolemaios are solved in this beta2 - please post screens and try to play on VERY HARD CAMPAIGN AND MEDIUM BATTLES

But let me tell you - this is beta still so it is possible to make more money in.. and lower upkeep cost - its just that we must wait some others to backup your suggestion

[Dominatrixx]

Well, I can say that I wanted to make lower upkeep and more money in general for Human and AI.. but it was a call of the other ALXEB members.. can you post screenshots of progression in your EB beta 2 campaign even if you only test..?! :hmmm:

And I havent had the time to test much (which I did for beta 1)

I hope that overpowered Ptolemaios are solved in this beta2 - please post screens and try to play on VERY HARD CAMPAIGN AND MEDIUM BATTLES

But let me tell you - this is beta still so it is possible to make more money in.. and lower upkeep cost - its just that we must wait some others to backup your suggestion

I don't like to play campaigns on VERY HARD because diplomacy becomes useless and AI cheats hard with money
I don't have any screens because i've deleted saves already but what did i saw to the year 265 B.C. :

1 - AS and Ptolemaios fighting with each other as usually but this time AS won a pair of battles and as a result took 1 Ptolemaios city without losing any. They have 2 full stack armies near Antiochea and in range sight of my spies i saw only 1 full stack Ptolemaios army not far from Damascos (territory around Alexandrea is almost empty of any Ptolemaios units).
2 - Pontos already took Galatia and continue expanding.
3 - Pahlava took 1 province from AS aready.
4 - Macedons almost owned greeks - they took Sparta and Athenai and have 3 full stack armies. Greeks have only a half-stack at Rhodos so it seems game almost ended for them (at 265 B.C.!!!).Epeiros won't hold for long too i think. Looks like Macedonia is going to own all like in RTR Platinum.
5 - Carthagio is passive.
No info about other factions (didn't send spies). I've played at H/H.
And one funny thing about syracusian free roaming army under command of Hiero - they camped near Syracusai but when i've besieged Rhegion with my 2/3 stack army they made a run and attacked (!!!) me near Rhegion. I've run away but they followed (!!!) me almost until Capua, totally pwned me in battle (3 units of elephants at H level is pwnage) and then went back to Sicilia and stand near Messiana. When i've tried to besiege Rhegion once again in few turns (with full stak army this time) he attacked me again and pwned once again!!! This looks so stupid - it means that if u want to take Rhegion u need to fight great syracousai army at the same time...
So, what will u suggest to me? Wait for next version? Or try to make .txt configs myself (with a chance of creating some disbalance to the mod)? Or make something different?

[Dominatrixx]

Btw, Maksimus, i've checked unit_descr in Alex mod an "tweaks mod" and saw that all units which are in both mode have absolutely the same price and upkeep. The only difference is that in Alex mod there is no more 0 turn recruitment. So as i understand the problem with money is not in units - it's only because cities generate less income. So i've got an idea - what will be if i'll leave ur mod settings like they're but only set 0 turn recruitment and edit descr_buildings somehow to get something like i had with "tweaks"? Won't it cause any disbalance or bugs? Because i'm gonna leave all except descr_units and descr_buildings as it was set by you (too many files to understand what you've done ). Plz give me idea how to make it
P.S. IMHO 0 turn recruitment with some more money for all factions brings much more fun and realism to the game (bigger armies, interesting AI vs. AI fights, longer campaigns with beating AI harder and e.t.c.) without making it like Roma Surrectum massacre. because anyway units cost a lot and money are not limitless, but those money are enough for historical & roleplay gameplay stuff

[maksimus]

I need that faction progression info very much! Thanks!

But...

To tell you the truth, I am not the one that is in charge of EBBS tweaks, so you will have to wait for LGK..

And I am not sure I understand what you mean with ''0 turn recruitment''

There is one very simple solution that you can use and balance the income - just raise the values of resources in ''descr_sm_resources.txt'' (like + 100% to all reasources)

And about the 'VERY HARD' campaign difficulties, I am not sure diplomaci is passive, but one thing is for sure - on 'VERY HARD' campaign difficulty Koinon Hellenon are shiping army from Rhodos all the time and AI is buying more mercenaries (in the case of greece Macedonian armies dont have space to recruit mercenaries - so that is KH job - they accumulate more and ALL mercenaries from Greece so they fight Macedonia after that):hmmm:

Also, Epeiros is very strong with Pyrrhos, many times did he took Pella in my tests..

Anyway, I can tweak some files if you know what you want and upload them for you and others...

[Dominatrixx]

I need that faction progression info very much! Thanks!

But...

To tell you the truth, I am not the one that is in charge of EBBS tweaks, so you will have to wait for LGK..

And I am not sure I understand what you mean with ''0 turn recruitment''

There is one very simple solution that you can use and balance the income - just raise the values of resources in ''descr_sm_resources.txt'' (like + 100% to all reasources)

And about the 'VERY HARD' campaign difficulties, I am not sure diplomaci is passive, but one thing is for sure - on 'VERY HARD' campaign difficulty Koinon Hellenon are shiping army from Rhodos all the time and AI is buying more mercenaries (in the case of greece Macedonian armies dont have space to recruit mercenaries - so that is KH job - they accumulate more and ALL mercenaries from Greece so they fight Macedonia after that):hmmm:

Also, Epeiros is very strong with Pyrrhos, many times did he took Pella in my tests..

Anyway, I can tweak some files if you know what you want and upload them for you and others...

"0 turn recruitment" mean feature hich i got after downloading and setting up files from "Various tweaks for EB" mod. It means that u can recruit few units in city per turn (if u have enough citizens and money), just like in S.P.Q.R or Roma Surrectum. Because with this tweak most of the units (except agents, ships, siege weapons and some other units) have 0 in "time for recruit", not 1 (or 2, 3 e.t.c.). This doesn't make EB look like RS because units cost much anyway and have high upkeep (not like in RS), but makes wars last much longer with bigger armies for every faction. With this, for example, u can't just create a big army and come to own carthagians at Sicily (becaue without that they are quite passive). When i attacked Lilibeo in 265 B.C. i've faced 2 full-stack Carthagio armies, not small stack as usual. IMHO this makes games much more interesting (for example, AS and Ptolemaios had at least 2-3 full stacks around Jerusalem permanently, it was fun to watch!).

About very hard... Ok, i'll try but not sure i'll like it . Btwm how did u managed to stop Ptolemaios from permanently beating AS and capturing all their Asia Minor lands?

And about tweaking.... I think i've got an idea - i'll make resouces more worthwile as u suggested and set 0 time recruitment for most of the units (except those which i've listed before)/ This will make the game look like what i have in EB with tweaks but with new units and great new features (yay!).

Btw, one more suggestion - i like the style how u made new buildings and tweaked old ones but don't u think Garrison buildings (those which give + order % in the city) should also give some additional money (safer roads = more travellers and merchants = more taxes). This feature was made in "EB tweaks" and made those buildings not so useless

P.S. keep working, your submod is great

[maksimus]

"0 turn recruitment" mean feature hich i got after downloading and setting up files from "Various tweaks for EB" mod. It means that u can recruit few units in city per turn (if u have enough citizens and money), just like in S.P.Q.R or Roma Surrectum. Because with this tweak most of the units (except agents, ships, siege weapons and some other units) have 0 in "time for recruit", not 1 (or 2, 3 e.t.c.). This doesn't make EB look like RS because units cost much anyway and have high upkeep (not like in RS), but makes wars last much longer with bigger armies for every faction. With this, for example, u can't just create a big army and come to own carthagians at Sicily (becaue without that they are quite passive). When i attacked Lilibeo in 265 B.C. i've faced 2 full-stack Carthagio armies, not small stack as usual. IMHO this makes games much more interesting (for example, AS and Ptolemaios had at least 2-3 full stacks around Jerusalem permanently, it was fun to watch!).

Well I guess that is EDU tweak - I will check it out, but these weeks I am the only one that is active in ALXEB team (Lgk, MiniMe, and MrMerisi are in some work and Agisilaos has hardware problems) .. And I am sure that is an issue I will have to discuss with others, also, I am afraid that that kind of tweak (do I like it ) would hit the game balance as it is . For example, We added a bunch of army to AS and Macedonia just so they could last in their historical boundaries - but 0 recruitment tweak would mean that some balance issues are already solved in advance or they are in danger

So we need to go through that carefully before implementation as I am sure you understand

About very hard... Ok, i'll try but not sure i'll like it . Btwm how did u managed to stop Ptolemaios from permanently beating AS and capturing all their Asia Minor lands?

Oh.. they were numerous ... but let me short it out

1. Army - AS has more army in the Middle East
2. Infrastructure - better roads that connect AS Empire (Antioh under siege aid issue coz when Syria falls everything is lost), more walls in the Middle East, lower end barracks for Egypt in Asia Minor and Middle East
3. Rebels - There are serious Rebels groups hand-placed in the South and West of Egypt - so they keep Egypt of the East for a long time (eventually, Egypt must win, the Geostrategic position is clear, but we need to prolong it to at least 200bc)

And about tweaking.... I think i've got an idea - i'll make resouces more worthwile as u suggested and set 0 time recruitment for most of the units (except those which i've listed before)/ This will make the game look like what i have in EB with tweaks but with new units and great new features (yay!).

So it is only EDU tweak? So you only need to set recrutiment time to 0 and it will work? :hmmm:

Btw, one more suggestion - i like the style how u made new buildings and tweaked old ones but don't u think Garrison buildings (those which give + order % in the city) should also give some additional money (safer roads = more travellers and merchants = more taxes). This feature was made in "EB tweaks" and made those buildings not so useless

Yes, it could be done, I am one of guys that would tweak anything with a sence and/or point so that one of yours is ok. But I am not sure that other members would be happy about that And the issues of buildings and its effect on the economy and society are very vast.. .. .. Look at Public Baths for example!? It is clear that in the ancient world people that lived in other towns that did not have public baths often visited the towns with public baths, so there is another acumulation of income and offcourse trade .. etc..

Will see it do... at the end (knowing myself) we might just implement all your ideas and + any others that have sence .. so bring them on

P.S. keep working, your submod is great

Oh... thanks, add suggestions before we release the final for EB 1

[Dominatrixx]

Well I guess that is EDU tweak - I will check it out, but these weeks I am the only one that is active in ALXEB team (Lgk, MiniMe, and MrMerisi are in some work and Agisilaos has hardware problems) .. And I am sure that is an issue I will have to discuss with others, also, I am afraid that that kind of tweak (do I like it ) would hit the game balance as it is . For example, We added a bunch of army to AS and Macedonia just so they could last in their historical boundaries - but 0 recruitment tweak would mean that some balance issues are already solved in advance or they are in danger

So we need to go through that carefully before implementation as I am sure you understand



Oh.. they were numerous ... but let me short it out

1. Army - AS has more army in the Middle East
2. Infrastructure - better roads that connect AS Empire (Antioh under siege aid issue coz when Syria falls everything is lost), more walls in the Middle East, lower end barracks for Egypt in Asia Minor and Middle East
3. Rebels - There are serious Rebels groups hand-placed in the South and West of Egypt - so they keep Egypt of the East for a long time (eventually, Egypt must win, the Geostrategic position is clear, but we need to prolong it to at least 200bc)



So it is only EDU tweak? So you only need to set recrutiment time to 0 and it will work? :hmmm:



Yes, it could be done, I am one of guys that would tweak anything with a sence and/or point so that one of yours is ok. But I am not sure that other members would be happy about that And the issues of buildings and its effect on the economy and society are very vast.. .. .. Look at Public Baths for example!? It is clear that in the ancient world people that lived in other towns that did not have public baths often visited the towns with public baths, so there is another acumulation of income and offcourse trade .. etc..

Will see it do... at the end (knowing myself) we might just implement all your ideas and + any others that have sence .. so bring them on



Oh... thanks, add suggestions before we release the final for EB 1

Ok, may be u're right about 0 turn recruitment. I've played original EB1 with lex.exe with this stuff and it was great, but i understand that u made a lot of work balancing factions so may be this will ruin tha balance. I'll give a try to 1 turn recruitment
Also i've tried to playe with resources value doubled and it feels much more better and realistic imho
But now a question about AI - it's absolutely great in battle and good on strategic map (using ships actively, merging armies and e.t.c) but i still don't see AI retraining units (like it did in EB1 with alex.exe). For example i saw that macedonian army stack in Phella was about 30% wounded but few turns and AI still didn't retrain them (feels like in Vanilla) despite of having all barracks needed. Or it just means AI don't have enough money (very strange if so, i've tried VH level)? Or it's some kind of bug (caused may be by 0 turn recruitment)?
Btw, one more question - i still can't understand what for is a new building called "Muster Field"?

[maksimus]

Ok, may be u're right about 0 turn recruitment. I've played original EB1 with lex.exe with this stuff and it was great, but i understand that u made a lot of work balancing factions so may be this will ruin tha balance. I'll give a try to 1 turn recruitment
Also i've tried to playe with resources value doubled and it feels much more better and realistic imho

It may not be the problem.. will test it soon, and the values are the key

But now a question about AI - it's absolutely great in battle and good on strategic map (using ships actively, merging armies and e.t.c) but i still don't see AI retraining units (like it did in EB1 with alex.exe). For example i saw that macedonian army stack in Phella was about 30% wounded but few turns and AI still didn't retrain them (feels like in Vanilla) despite of having all barracks needed. Or it just means AI don't have enough money (very strange if so, i've tried VH level)? Or it's some kind of bug (caused may be by 0 turn recruitment)?
Btw, one more question - i still can't understand what for is a new building called "Muster Field"?

Retraining features my lack sometimes because of the lack of money, also it may be the issue of Campaign difficulty and surely EBBS script LGK made that lowers the amount of money AI is getting. So we might tweak that it the problem persist.

And ''Muster Field'' is if I am not wrong is the building you found in a rebel settelment? if so, then you should know that we implemented ''slave'' barracks rebel settlements in hope they will retrain too (hopefully will make it work) and also because we wanted to lower the pace of some factions expansions that have the abilty to use many rebel barracks right away..
This way it will be harder to expand in rebel stand areas..

And if you encounter further probs with the retraining just try to play on Very hard campaign difficulty without 0 recruitment features and if they wont do that then either - then it is an income problem

[Dominatrixx]

Ok, i'm starting a new campaign at VH/M right now with tweaked resuource prices but original recruitment rules of ur mod

[Dominatrixx]

New ca,paign at VH/M in your mod is nice and interesting but it's 264 B.C. now and i've got a message that Koinon Hellon faction is destroyed (by Macedons)... I never had any faction destroyed before 220 B.C. at least in any of my EB campaigns ever...