Are we responsible for the actions of our ancestors?

[Safekeeper]

This is something that's been bugging me for a while now. One keeps hearing people say that, for example, since 'we' (referring to Europeans) were the ones who messed up Africa, it's our responsibility to help them today with foreign aid. And by all means, we should help the developing countries - but we should do it because our lands are rich, they're not, and we have the power to even things out. To say we should do it because of what our ancestors did... does not cut it with me. I have never even been to Africa. I have never owned a single slave, forcibly converted a single African to Christianity, or put a single tribe in a reservation for then to turn their original homestead into an oil field or mine. What happened to Africa was horrific, but my ethnicity and country of birth notwithstanding, it was not my fault. A Belgian of Belgian descent does not have more of a responsibility to help Rwanda than does a Taiwanese of Chinese descent.

Why do we even think this way in the first place? Does it come from the old days when all serious crimes were passed on to descendants and you were automatically in part guilty of murder if your grandparents had killed someone before you were born?

[jankren]

I dont think it is responsibility or guilt issue, instead it is 'What would Jesus do?' issue.

[Kiki52]

In the Old Testament, if a man would hate YHWH, not only he would have the wrath of God upon him, but YHWH would curse him and his descendants up the 3rd or 4th generation. Haven't you heard that the sins of the fathers shall be cast upon his son?

I do not believe in the literal version that God will 'curse' you if what your father did was wrong, but perhaps you can take it allegorically.

You can even think it about it from a viewpoint of karma from a Hindu/Buddhist perspective rather than a Judeo-Christian perspective. There may be individual karma, but there is also genetic karma (race karma), national karma, and collective karma (the whole human race in general). The New Age movement also states that all things and people are interrelated, so at some point we too have some fault for what other peoeple did in the past or present. That is why the New Age movement wants you to think positive all the time, so you bring positivity towards you rather than negativity.

While it isn't fair that the sins of the father shall be cast upon his son as said in the Bible, in a way that is just reality and we have to deal with it.

[Dayman]

While it isn't fair that the sins of the father shall be cast upon his son as said in the Bible, in a way that is just reality and we have to deal with it.

Utter crap. No, no one should bear the errors of the past. I don't care what your god "did".

What The Prophet said is true though, societies do.

[jankren]

No soul shall bear the burden of another soul.

[The Prophet]

Individuals don't bear responsibility. But perhaps societies do.

If societies don't then why should Holocaust survivors get compensation?

Overall, a tough question.

[Ummon]

We are not responsible for the actions of our ancestors but the sins of fathers do fall upon descendants until the seventh generation (as the Bible puts it), paradoxically. A concept which is present is the I Ching as well, and besides, it is obvious, that anything which is wrong but isn't acknowledged as such, will survive until someone expiates it.

[HopliteElite]

I don't think the "We screwed it up, so we should fix it" argument is valid. The reason why is that the "we" of the current time is not the "we" of the past which screwed things up, so in reality, there is no we, at all. If Europeans or Americans are going to help developing countries it should be because those countries have or will have, with some help, something to offer to us. The guilt thing is old. I know my ancestors, both American and Italians have caused some serious grief around the world, but that doesn't mean, as an American I have to sponsor helping African nations, due to the past American reliance upon black slaves, any more than I have to sponsor helping France, considering my Roman ancestors once brutally subjugated them.

[Blau&Gruen]

and besides, it is obvious, that anything which is wrong but isn't acknowledged as such, will survive until someone expiates it.

Well, you had before to accept the 'metaphysical' implications behind. I am not sure, if the step from the ought to the be should be thought that way. It is in that sense not "obvious". It shows the serious intentions of a roman catholic buddhist, though, and deserves being respected as a fair choice, therefore, in a world of manifold freedoms.

[Ummon]

Well, you had before to accept the 'metaphysical' implications behind. I am not sure, if the step from the ought to the be should be thought that way. It is in that sense not "obvious". It shows the serious intentions of a roman catholic buddhist, though, and deserves being respected as a fair choice, therefore, in a world of manifold freedoms.

Evil is just inefficiency seen from a better vantage point.

[Blau&Gruen]

It's an opinion, I would not share.

[Turbo]

There is original sin which was committed by Adam/Eve in Genesis that has been passed on to descendents. Also, the gift of the holy spirit which has been passed on to any who will accept it. Both continue to be passed down.

[Ummon]

The problem is that any unresolved problem one day or the other explodes in your face, so whether you resolve it or not it is merely a matter of self-interest. Infact, the tragedy of human life is that the only alternative to misery, is becoming a saint.

[rathelios]

At what point in time do you draw the line in the sand?
The English part of my ancestry probably owes something to the Scottish/Welsh/Irish parts. The Norman part to the Anglo-Saxon. The Viking to the Anglo-Saxon. The Anglo Saxon to the Celtic. The Roman to the Celtic. The rich Roman to the Roman slave.
It never ends. Various parts of my genetic ancestry has been being beastly to various other parts probably since Mitochondrial Eve or whoever. Am I supposed to feel guilty about this?
Best just to forget about who owes who what. Live in the present and sort your own **** out.

Unless maybe carping on about this stuff can get you a bigger aid budget or something...

[removeduser_487563287433]

No, of course we're not. That is utterly retarded.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Doesn't the son get the debt of the father? Or the bad credit rating? It is true that we are given some punishment due to the actions of our immediate ancestors. Do we deserve it? Hell no.

[Blau&Gruen]

We are of course responsible for what we are doing. But that we are, unless we are qualified as unable to.

[Dayman]

Doesn't the son get the debt of the father? Or the bad credit rating? It is true that we are given some punishment due to the actions of our immediate ancestors. Do we deserve it? Hell no.

Most of the time you don't, unless it is something expensive, like a house.

[eventhorizen]

I do not immagine the mind was an objective lense.

You claimed we can know matter directly. You claimed matter is more than its relationships.

Time: I become aware of an influence in my perspective. It does not equal the awareness I have of my perspective lacking this influence. I cognate time, space, object, self, memory.

Do the same with matter, without referring to relationships.

[Blau&Gruen]

You claimed we can know matter directly. You claimed matter is more than its relationships.

Time: I become aware of an influence in my perspective. It does not equal the awareness I have of my perspective lacking this influence. I cognate time, space, object, self, memory.

Do the same with matter, without referring to relationships.

We may have a different approach here. I mean with "matter more than its religionablitity", that the categories under, which we thematize matter can include also the cause, the effect, the substance, the modes, the attributes etc. I do not think these are objective items, though.