are romans too weak ?

[kotys]

Hi, to all EB team.
I play EB since the first realease and I think that this mod after other ones is the best.
But I'm somewhat desapointed about the romans in EB 1.0,I didn't played romans since EB 0.74, and I sarted some days ago a campaign with romans and it seems that this faction has felt from superheros soldiers 'on vanilla RTW) to weak warriors on EB fighting against standart greek hoplitai my roman army won but with a lot of losses and fighting against lusotanan army I was completly defeated most of time. I thought that I was a poor roman general but after revealing the map with the "toggle_fow" option on previous saved games with other factions that roman faction was rapidly defeated by lusotana or carthaginian faction around 200 BC. So I decided to modify the stats of polybian triarii and pincipes to avoid this.
So I ask to other players are romans too weak in this release and other factions as lusotona too strong ?

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Annihilation was something I was pretty far away from but I have to agree with you 100% - early Roman units are very weak versus those of other factions. My army of Principes and Triarii struggles against the Greeks as well as Carthaginians. In fact, my best infantry of the time couldn't keep the walls against Heavy Greek Skirmishers and Light Hoplites. I lost everything I gained in the Greek region.

I haven't reached the Marian reforms yet so I'm assuming the professional soldiers will be a lot stronger.

While we're on this, I also think that cavalry in general has been made very powerless against infantry. I mean, I charge my horses at the flanks of my enemy infantries yet they don't rout and instead, I keep suffering losses.

Lastly, I'm playing at VH/VH, does that give the enemy extra points over me during the battles? If yes, I guess that'd answer both my queries.

[Marcus Publius]

VH/VH settings is bad i suggest you play on H/M is the the best settings and other important thing play with Alex if you have it that will give you Ai more challenging and VH settings for battle give Ai crazy bonuses so it wouldn’t be realistic ad unbalance all gameplay

[KaerMorhen]

Indeed H/M is probably most accurate setting for balanced gameplay in EB 1.0 I guess. I play as Romani right now and find the gameplay very 'stable' if I may say so and the battles are ballanced as well. Truely Republic infantry isn't toughest versus those of other factions but situation isn't neither hopeless so I'm able to expand outside the pennisula.

[kotys]

I actually play on hard for battles, and I must say I don't understand why polybian triarii have less armour points than camillian one, the later triarii are weaker than earlier ones.
I'am still playing my roman campaign but I will stop it as it comes seriouly unplayable. I lost massalia as I was attacked by lusotona, that has yet conquered all iberica and gaul, my two roman armies are threatened by 7 full stacks of lusotonian elite armies, and now this faction sent to my land a uber diploamat that has been able to corrupt a third army I previuosly recruited. this diploamt is invicible all the 14 attempt I made to kill him were avoided, my assassins had only 5 to 11 % to kill him. I recruited a fourth mercenary army with a general but he was able to corrupt it again, so by now I have a full stack ennemy mercenary army that besiege aretium.
I took a look to the status of lusotona they are richer than all other factions having more or less 420 000 denerii.
So the game has turned ridiculous for me and i will start a new one as epire kingdom.
The lusotona seems to be somewhat unbalanced to me in all the gams I played they are able to conquer most europe in less than 100 years.

[megaflus]

if you play vh on battles the game will be very unbalanced and you will have a hard time wining, it will be esyer and more realistic if you play it on hard

[Foot]

If you try to extrapolate from this one instance general truths about the strength and weaknesses of each faction you will find 100 instances that show you are wrong.

Foot

[ywingpilot]

One thing about EB, you need proper heavy shock calvary, you need to move your horses quite far, making sure there is nothing inbetween your calvary and the enemy. Hit the flanks, if the enemy doesn't break first time retreat and try again. Calvary is for shock tatcics not melee fighting. For calvary with two handed lances you would know that its successful when the lances have been lowered before charging.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

One thing about EB, you need proper heavy shock calvary, you need to move your horses quite far, making sure there is nothing inbetween your calvary and the enemy. Hit the flanks, if the enemy doesn't break first time retreat and try again. Calvary is for shock tatcics not melee fighting. For calvary with two handed lances you would know that its successful when the lances have been lowered before charging.

That's very true. I've been trying that only for the past few battles and it seems a bit more effective than previously.

I'm quite tired of seing posts like: ''Why are Romans so weak'' and of course the classic one ''When do you get the Marian reforms?''. Anyway, I really think people ought to do some research about some things, especially what involves historical accuracy...

Yeah well, here's my situation. I'm playing as Rome on vh/vh and I've got my best Trarii units along with the Extraordinari-Heavy Cavalry and I'm up against a small Makedonian army. They've got 4 Elite Phalanxes and I've got an army 4-5 times their size.

During the battle, each of their phalanxes is surrounded by three sides by my best infantry and I keep charging my cavalry into the empty space again and again. Guess what? I lose the battle despite both armies being of mostly Excellent Morale units.

In another battle against one of the Gallic nations, the entire enemy army routs except a unit of Naked Fanatics. Again, surrounded by 3 sides by my best Trarii, they manage to take out around 300 of my men before they broke and ran.

Now either the higher tier units with Excellent Morale need to be fixed or the bonuses they get at vh battle difficulty need to be fixed because clearly, there's something wrong. There's a difference between very difficult and ridiculously flawed.

[chenkai11]

[/quote]Yeah well, here's my situation. I'm playing as Rome on vh/vh and I've got my best Trarii units along with the Extraordinari-Heavy Cavalry and I'm up against a small Makedonian army. They've got 4 Elite Phalanxes and I've got an army 4-5 times their size.

During the battle, each of their phalanxes is surrounded by three sides by my best infantry and I keep charging my cavalry into the empty space again and again. Guess what? I lose the battle despite both armies being of mostly Excellent Morale units.

In another battle against one of the Gallic nations, the entire enemy army routs except a unit of Naked Fanatics. Again, surrounded by 3 sides by my best Trarii, they manage to take out around 300 of my men before they broke and ran.

Now either the higher tier units with Excellent Morale need to be fixed or the bonuses they get at vh battle difficulty need to be fixed because clearly, there's something wrong. There's a difference between very difficult and ridiculously flawed.[/quote]

That's why I started a new campaigh with VH/H, not because I can't win but VH battle difficulty sometimes really makes the battle ridiculous.

[invictus]

Im not really sure why you guys feel the romans are weak. In none of my games have they ever been wiped out. They are usually the ones to conquer everything(depending who i am). -Leon

[starXdiaMoo]

I'm quite tired of seing posts like: ''Why are Romans so weak'' and of course the classic one ''When do you get the Marian reforms?''. Anyway, I really think people ought to do some research about some things, especially what involves historical accuracy...

[Foot]

VH does not increase the intelligence of the Ai. VH gives a bonus to attack and morale and unbalances the stats made for EB. We recommend Medium difficulty for battles, anything else is not supported by EB. The stats are fine, it is the hardcoded stats increases at vh and h that are causing your problems.

Foot

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Thanks for the clarification, I had no idea.

Thanks again!

Edit: chenkai11, according to the devs, you should go down to Medium

[chenkai11]

Thanks for the clarification, I had no idea.

Thanks again!

Edit: chenkai11, according to the devs, you should go down to Medium

Yup, some people suggested that to use M difficulty will be more realistic and balanced. But if just AI can think like we do.

[starXdiaMoo]

Well, I use Hard campaign difficulty and Medium battle difficulty. I find this to suite my tastes best, as battles are balanced and the AI seems to be more active than on Medium. For example, some AI armies have actually besieged my cities

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Well, I use Hard campaign difficulty and Medium battle difficulty. I find this to suite my tastes best, as battles are balanced and the AI seems to be more active than on Medium. For example, some AI armies have actually besieged my cities

Yes, that is the best setting for me too.

As long as you let the enemy army outnumber yours by at least 1.5 to 1 (more if their units are inferior), and avoid having more than a couple of elite or slinger units in your army, then the battles are difficult enough even though the AI is stupid.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Yes, I think it is better to slow down the difficulty than to change anything... Romans seems enough strong to me, but I play M/M with them.

No, romans does not have cataphracts, nor nude men (nor nude women, a shame !), nor phanlanges but :

They start with a protected territory, with more cities than almost all other factions, and with politics and economics well developped.

And, most of all, they are verry well historicaly made and that is a think I will be eternaly thankfull to the EB's team.

If it is too hard, slow down the difficulty...or wait the time to attack... Roman empire was not made in one day !
If it is too easy, pump it up !

But actualy, I prefer a sharp-historical faction than a modified faction to suite desire of strenght.

That's why I think EB is the best mod I ever seen and I hope it will stay.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Anyone who plays on VH battle difficulty has no cause for complaint if the AI whips him. That's what the VH level is for - so the AI can beat you.

Playing on that difficulty level is just asking for trouble. AI Greek levy hoplites can slaughter Triarii on that level!

Medium battle difficulty level is the only one where your units and the AI's can be fairly compared, since that's the only difficulty level on which neither side receives any bonuses.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Yep...

Now, against AI, you can beat six elite phalanx unit with two unit of heavy cavalry, turning around them, striking from back, so verry hard could do the balance...

It is true playing on that difficulty level is asking for balance in some cases

Because AI cannot play with soliders