The Profits of Becoming a Vassal

[Landwalker]

I found this a bit amusing, and thought I would throw it out there and see if anyone else had had similar experiences.

Playing as Kiev, I backstabbed my allies in Novgorod and captured Smolensk and Chernigov, then proceeded to resist all efforts to reclaim them. A while afterwards, with much bloodshed, Novgorod approached me with a peace agreement. The price: I would become their vassal.

Frankly, I was sick of fighting Novgorod anyway, so I decided to negotiate and see what I could come up with. Novgorod wasn't interested in any truce that didn't end with me becoming a vassal, so I ran with that and managed to negotiate the following agreement:

My Offers: Become Vassal; 200 Florins / Turn, 2 Turns.
Their Offers: Moscow.

So, after a couple of fights, and with fairly minimal concessions on my part, I am the proud owner of three of Novgorod's provinces that they had when hostilities began: Smolensk, Chernigov, and Moscow. I also get peace at long last with Hungary (Novgorod's ally), two lucrative trading partners (after I offered Hungary trade rights in exchange for them giving me 2000 florins), and a competent ally in the event that Lithuania gets uppity. What do I lose? As far as I can tell, not much. My grand total loses according to my Finance scroll at 812 florins in "corruption and other", which I assume means what I'm giving to Novgorod due to my status as a vassal.

Not a bad deal, all in all.

Cheers.

[y2day]

Yes the whole vassal thing is a flawed piece of shite.


Man I'm so articulate with my words.

[Ataegina]

hmmm as long you take some profit of it its good ^^

[Henry X]

Are there any consequences for becoming a vassal, or is it just another way of getting out of a losing war and getting an ally? And for the five of you reading, please post.

[nickman777]

yeah, when you are vassal to another you lose 90% of your treasury

landwalker, why does your emphasis on vassalage sound like a criticism
you can manually set the cost of vassals in diplomacy file
take the initiative instead of whining.

[Landwalker]

landwalker, why does your emphasis on vassalage sound like a criticism

I don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about, but that hardly comes as a surprise. I'll just take the shotgun approach and try to cover everything you possibly could have been thinking:

If you thought I was criticizing the concept of a player becoming a vassal: I don't know where you got that. Generally, given the position of inferiority associated with being a vassal to another faction, players aren't going to get fired up at the prospect, which is natural. However, my entire post about how accepting vassalage worked to my advantage. That's hardly criticism.

If you thought I was criticizing the concept of taking a vassal: I don't know where you got that, because I never even mentioned it.

If you thought I was criticizing the way the game handles vassalage: I don't know where you got that. Nowhere in my post did I complain about the mechanics of vassalage. In fact, I was reveling in the fact that they worked to my advantage, and allowed me to secure a long-sought peace without forcing me to cede multiple settlements to Novgorod.

So, given that nowhere in my post was I "whining" about anything, there doesn't seem to be much for me to take the initiative on, now does there? Perhaps a more careful reading of my original post would have revealed this fairly self-evident point. (Edit: I suppose, to answer your question, "Why does your emphasis on vassalage sound like a criticism?" in the most direct manner, the answer is "Because your grasp of the English language isn't strong enough to have properly understood my post in the first place." However, I thought it fitting to address the issue in a little more detail, as you have just seen, in case there was any further confusion. I hope that clears it up.)

Are there any consequences for becoming a vassal, or is it just another way of getting out of a losing war and getting an ally?

Well, as I demonstrated, it doesn't have be a losing war that you're getting out of. In my case, I was winning handily, but wanted peace. Novgorod refused to accept my own offers, so when they made me an offer of vassalage (wherein I would become the vassal of Novgorod), I ran with it.

I have not been able to run across any noteworthy costs or negative consequences so far. I have certainly not lost 90% of my treasury. In fact, I have lost none of it. Even if the supposed financial losses of vassalage don't show up on the finance scroll, I can tell that I am not losing any significant amount of money simply by looking at my treasury each turn.

Cheers.

[nickman777]

I don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about, but that hardly comes as a surprise. I'll just take the shotgun approach and try to cover everything you possibly could have been thinking:

If you thought I was criticizing the concept of a player becoming a vassal: I don't know where you got that. Generally, given the position of inferiority associated with being a vassal to another faction, players aren't going to get fired up at the prospect, which is natural. However, my entire post about how accepting vassalage worked to my advantage. That's hardly criticism.

If you thought I was criticizing the concept of taking a vassal: I don't know where you got that, because I never even mentioned it.

If you thought I was criticizing the way the game handles vassalage: I don't know where you got that. Nowhere in my post did I complain about the mechanics of vassalage. In fact, I was reveling in the fact that they worked to my advantage, and allowed me to secure a long-sought peace without forcing me to cede multiple settlements to Novgorod.

So, given that nowhere in my post was I "whining" about anything, there doesn't seem to be much for me to take the initiative on, now does there? Perhaps a more careful reading of my original post would have revealed this fairly self-evident point. (Edit: I suppose, to answer your question, "Why does your emphasis on vassalage sound like a criticism?" in the most direct manner, the answer is "Because your grasp of the English language isn't strong enough to have properly understood my post in the first place." However, I thought it fitting to address the issue in a little more detail, as you have just seen, in case there was any further confusion. I hope that clears it up.)




Well, as I demonstrated, it doesn't have be a losing war that you're getting out of. In my case, I was winning handily, but wanted peace. Novgorod refused to accept my own offers, so when they made me an offer of vassalage (wherein I would become the vassal of Novgorod), I ran with it.

I have not been able to run across any noteworthy costs or negative consequences so far. I have certainly not lost 90% of my treasury. In fact, I have lost none of it. Even if the supposed financial losses of vassalage don't show up on the finance scroll, I can tell that I am not losing any significant amount of money simply by looking at my treasury each turn.

Cheers.

i'm not going to read through your post, the first few lines already tell me you suffer from head trauma.

[Landwalker]

i'm not going to read through your post, the first few lines already tell me you suffer from head trauma.

*Claims the victory yet again.*

Granted, I could hardly have expected any other reaction from you in the face of logic and rational thought than laziness and immaturity. I suppose that makes the victory a hollow one, but who am I to be at fault for the shortcomings of my adversaries?

Cheers.

[Ataegina]

oh no....again

[BigJake]

i'm not going to read through your post, the first few lines already tell me you suffer from head trauma.

harsh man, harsh

[Ataegina]

but nickman777 are right when he said , the vassal faction loses a bunch of money ! its the price of become vassal...

[Landwalker]

but nickman777 are right when he said , the vassal faction loses a bunch of money ! its the price of become vassal...

Can you actually find the evidence in the game files to back this up? As I stated, I have not been demonstrably losing any amount of money. I'm genuinely interested in finding out what the facts are concerning this.

why are you repman, until you show your face, i'm not going to argue

Is there any way you could make that statement more intelligible for the rest of us? I for one have no idea what "repman" is supposed to mean, nor what its context is in the question of "Why?" For that matter, it's vague as to whom you are referring with "you". Any explication would be greatly appreciated. If you need help, try http://www.englishchick.com/grammar/grrem.htm

As to your second line, it (unsurprisingly) makes no sense whatsoever. If you could touch that up a bit and make it more coherent, that'd be great.

Cheers.

[republic_bohemia]

Can you actually find the evidence in the game files to back this up? As I stated, I have not been demonstrably losing any amount of money. I'm genuinely interested in finding out what the facts are concerning this.



Is there any way you could make that statement more intelligible for the rest of us? I for one have no idea what "repman" is supposed to mean, nor what its context is in the question of "Why?" For that matter, it's vague as to whom you are referring with "you". Any explication would be greatly appreciated. If you need help, try http://www.englishchick.com/grammar/grrem.htm

As to your second line, it (unsurprisingly) makes no sense whatsoever. If you could touch that up a bit and make it more coherent, that'd be great.

Cheers.

ALMAO this account -Landwalker- is the person a modder named -Repman- I know him,interesting why you got two accounts? :hmmm:

[nickman777]

why are you repman, until you show your face, i'm not going to argue

landwalker: "SHOCKED" how did he find out???

[Henry X]

Landwalker:3, nickman777:0

[republic_bohemia]

Landwalker:3, nickman777:0

You know what stop posting this critic comeback stay out of there forum talk.Not this battle again.

[Ataegina]

well ill not enter on this discussions, but vassal isnt a good position for any ruler, thats why nobody wants be, in history, if you find any vassals its because they're weak or need protection,or they're trying survive.

also the point of be vassal its you pay tribute, to be protected or to keep peace...

of course i'm not refering to you,anyway i'm out of this discussion(if i've ever enter...) :p

[Landwalker]

vassal isnt a good position for any ruler, thats why nobody wants be, in history, if you find any vassals its because they're weak or need protection,or they're trying survive.

also the point of be vassal its you pay tribute, to be protected or to keep peace...

That's what you would expect, of course. However, in the interest of better answering Henry's question, I decided to do some direct analysis:

Before ending the turn, I took a look at my expenditures and my treasury. It stood thus:

Wages Paid: 3,850
Unit Upkeep: 7,824
Recruitment: 200
Construction: 3,100
Tribute: 0
Corruption and Other: 1,330*

Current Treasury: 2,837
Projected Treasury Next Turn: 10,480

*I double-checked my cities, and this is only due to corruption. Astrakhan and Sarkel alone account for over a third of it.

You can clearly see that there is no indication of payment of vasssal-based tribute. Now, if indeed I am supposed to lose 90% of my treasury to my liege country, I could reasonably expect to begin the next turn with 7,927 florins (that is, 10,480 minus 90% of 2,837).

However, after ending the turn, I began the next turn with 10,407 florins, almost exactly the projected totals (slightly adjusted to compensate for minor fluctuations in trade and population, and the fact that some of my soldiers are dying of plague). Thus, it is clear that I am not losing any money by virtue of being a vassal. I hope this clears up the situation for anyone interested.

quit hiding behind the mask repman. everybody knows its you

Who the hell is "repman"? Anybody care to help me out on this?

Cheers.

[nickman777]

this will help my grammar, thank you repman
when can i possibly reach your state of intellect, teach me teacher

quit hiding behind the mask repman. everybody knows its you

[Henry X]

this will help my grammar, thank you repman
when can i possibly reach your state of intellect, teach me teacher

quit hiding behind the mask repman. everybody knows its you

WTF! Sorry, I'm just really confused about who is repman.