Faction List?

[Phalanx300]

I have been following this mod for a while, even before i got RTW, it isn't working yet though.

Well, anyways its ten new factions right? If that's the case then I think this should happen: Dumb the Koinen Hellenon(Before getting mad plz read through). So now it is 11 new factions, so here are the ones I would pick:
1.Sparte
2.Rhodos
3.Athenai
4.Pergamon
5.Syracuse
6.Those Greeks on the top of the black sea(srry I forgot), bers(something).
7.Galatia
8.Massilia
9.Kyrene
10.Another German faction
11.Another German/Celtic faction

Just thought that I would say my choise, and you're probably wondering, why Athenai, Rhodos and Sparte, well I actually was thinking of a forced alliance untill all Greek settlements are freed or untill the Greek settlements are in control of "greek" factions.

[Foot]

Greek fan much? We have decided that either the greek city states exist together as one faction representing a historical treaty or they do not appear as a faction at all and are represented by strong rebels. They just weren't powerful enough on their own and under those circumstances there are more important states to represent.

Foot

[Venta Icenor Um]

My suggestions...

1 Syracuse
2 Pergammon
3 ardiaei (Or similar Illyrian tribe)
4 Chattii or Cherusci, (I'd say Chatti)
5 Marcomanni
6 Numidia
7 Celitberians
8 Galatians, or possibly Bosphorians as asia minor seems a little crowded
9 Either Nabateans or possibly a faction in what is now Oman
10 a Kushan or Nubian faction maybe?

[Phalanx300]

Greek fan much? We have decided that either the greek city states exist together as one faction representing a historical treaty or they do not appear as a faction at all and are represented by strong rebels. They just weren't powerful enough on their own and under those circumstances there are more important states to represent.

Foot

Yeah, I'm quite a fan of the ancient Greeks, especially the city states as you saw.

[neoptolemos]

The Greek states(Athens,Sparta,Koino Voioton,Achaiki Sympoliteia,Macedonia) or Hellenized kingdoms(Ptolemaic Egypt,Pergamos,Seleukides,Bactria.......) were the majority of Eastern Mediterranean states .
Anyway it is better to give 2-3 Greek states in Greek Peninsula than the Koino Hellenon......

[Foot]

As I've already mentioned, we disagree. The KH is a better option than 2-3 one province city-states.

Foot

[ivan_the_terrible]

Do you know when the team plans to release the faction list?

Or is it still being debated?

Cheers.

[neoptolemos]

But KH is historically accurate+Macedonia-Sparta(Lakedaimon)?:hmmm:
But if it is for practical reasons

[Ludens]

Do you know when the team plans to release the faction list?

Or is it still being debated?

I don't think the team are going to release a faction list. Instead, they will reveal the factions one by one with previews, like they did with EB1.

But KH is historically accurate+Macedonia-Sparta(Lakedaimon)?:hmmm:
But if it is for practical reasons

I am not sure what you are asking, but yes, the KH is accurate, to a degree. It is based on the historical Cremonidean alliance between Athens and Sparta. The Cremonidean alliance was formed a few years into the mod, but it wouldn't have been the work of a few days so it can be argued that Sparta and Athens were already very close. The alliance received support from the Ptolemeans, so Rhodos, being Egypt's main ally in the area, was almost certainly involved as well.

Off course, in history the alliance fell apart rather quickly when the Spartan king died in a failed attempt to take Corinth. And even if it had been successful the alliance would most likely have bickered itself apart in short order. But the Greeks were not the only faction who suffered from major internal loyalty problems, although they arguably had the worst.

[Confitemini in Domino]

I should think the Scythians would be a good choice. They held a significant enough amount of territory where they are not a one city kingdom.

Secondly, to slow down the Seleukid beast, perhaps you could use Jihads to create a stack of rebels which would rise up and attack them, like a Jewish uprising, or a Persian insurrection.

[Ahiga]

Do you know when the team plans to release the faction list?

Or is it still being debated?

Cheers.

Not speaking as one of them of course, but it's possible we won't know all of them until the actual release. Remember that in EB1 they kept the Yuzehi and I -think- an additional faction to be top secret until they released it. The Sabeateans and the Saka however were announced I think before the mod actually released.

So my prediction, not based on any facts or knowledge, is we won't figure out all the factions until the mod's actually out. They might throw us a bone here or there, but I am not sure they'd give the full list.

To be honest I'm glad they're sticking to 1 Greek Peninsular Faction, much for the same reason I dislike mods featuring more than 1-2 Italian City States when the Entire map focuses on Europe (Or in this case, doesn't even 'focus' on Europe but rather the entire Ancient Medieval Western & Near Eastern World). Having two piddly city-states who always get crushed by Macedonia 9/10 is not as attractive as having 1 coalition of them who can sometimes stand their ground, and using that extra spot for something far more impacting, entertaining, and historically apt. If you ask me, it's also conceited to behave as though the Peloponnesian City-States deserve to be separated into 2-3 tiny city-states at a period where they were not reaching the sort of power they did in the past.


So my thanks for that decision EB.

[neoptolemos]

I don't think the team are going to release a faction list. Instead, they will reveal the factions one by one with previews, like they did with EB1.



I am not sure what you are asking, but yes, the KH is accurate, to a degree. It is based on the historical Cremonidean alliance between Athens and Sparta. The Cremonidean alliance was formed a few years into the mod, but it wouldn't have been the work of a few days so it can be argued that Sparta and Athens were already very close. The alliance received support from the Ptolemeans, so Rhodos, being Egypt's main ally in the area, was almost certainly involved as well.

Off course, in history the alliance fell apart rather quickly when the Spartan king died in a failed attempt to take Corinth. And even if it had been successful the alliance would most likely have bickered itself apart in short order. But the Greeks were not the only faction who suffered from major internal loyalty problems, although they arguably had the worst.

I am reffering to the term "koino Hellenon" who has taken place when Phillipos II of Makedon established the Greek Alliance to invade Persia which excluded Lakedaimon(Sparta) from the alliance.....

Anyway the practical issue is more important in an ambitius mod like EBII

[Ludens]

I am reffering to the term "koino Hellenon" who has taken place when Phillipos II of Makedon established the Greek Alliance to invade Persia which excluded Lakedaimon(Sparta) from the alliance.....

That Koinon Hellenon is dead and buried by the time EB starts. The Koinon Hellenon of EB is the Cremonidean alliance (the name is IIRC derived from the decree announcing the alliance, but I could be wrong).

[sirfiggin]

Okay....... since this seems to be a prediction thread... I'll say;

1. Po valley gauls
2. Helvetti( in place of the mega-strong alp rebels)
3. Belgae
4. Chatti or another german faction to rival the Sweboz
5. Numidia (or other north-african nomads, with lots of skirmisher cavalry to rival Carthaginian land expansion)
6. Syracuse
7. Bithynia or Northern greek colonies
8. Another gallic faction in mainland gaul, possibly in modern Brittany
9. another diadochi, to counter the Grey Death/Yellow Fever/Blue Death (right term?) phenomenon.
10. Possibly an extra germanic or balkan based faction, or Ethiopia.

[neoptolemos]

That Koinon Hellenon is dead and buried by the time EB starts. The Koinon Hellenon of EB is the Cremonidean alliance (the name is IIRC derived from the decree announcing the alliance, but I could be wrong).[/quote]

O.k.

[Zenith Darksea]

If I may make a suggestion, I can see why people would like to have the KH split into three allied factions (greater historical accuracy and the possibility of the almost guaranteed in-fighting that would have arisen had they been successful), though I can also agree with the viewpoint of the EB team (individually they weren't powerful enough).

Nonetheless, I think that the idea of conceptualising the faction as the whole Koinon was not executed as well as it might have been in EB I. There seemed to be a fundamental uncertainty as to whether or not the Spartans or the other Greeks were the centre of attention. It doesn't really affect gameplay so much, but it does affect immersion, I think. So, I would suggest the following.

Scrap the name 'Koinon Hellenon' and just make 'Lakedaimon' the Greek faction. Wait - hear me out. Athenai and Rhodos would still be in the faction's starting territories and would still be Type II governments. Only now the Type II could be given a name such as Synkoinonia Hellenike ('Hellenic Communion') to indicate that the city with said government was a full member of a Koinon with Sparte, yet not actually a part of the Spartan system itself. The Type I government could be kept exactly the same in ethos (though I would recommend a name change perhaps to Basilike Synoikia Spartiatike - 'Royal Spartan Synoecism', as this would better account for the direct Spartan domination and the inability to train Spartiates outside of Laconia), as could the Type III and IV (this is of course dependent on whether the government system will still be in M2TW). My other government related comment would be that the Tyrannos Enchorios seems to be exactly the same in ethos as the Polis Symmache Autonome, only with the latter you get a local quisling tyrant, but not with the former. I would suggest further then that the Tyrannos Enchorios government be remained to Oligarchia Hypekoa ('Subject Oligarchy'), something that would retain historicity yet also explain why it doesn't give you a quisling character yet the Type IV does.

[thebigbossnahhh]

If I may make a suggestion, I can see why people would like to have the KH split into three allied factions (greater historical accuracy and the possibility of the almost guaranteed in-fighting that would have arisen had they been successful), though I can also agree with the viewpoint of the EB team (individually they weren't powerful enough).

Nonetheless, I think that the idea of conceptualising the faction as the whole Koinon was not executed as well as it might have been in EB I. There seemed to be a fundamental uncertainty as to whether or not the Spartans or the other Greeks were the centre of attention. It doesn't really affect gameplay so much, but it does affect immersion, I think. So, I would suggest the following.

Scrap the name 'Koinon Hellenon' and just make 'Lakedaimon' the Greek faction. Wait - hear me out. Athenai and Rhodos would still be in the faction's starting territories and would still be Type II governments. Only now the Type II could be given a name such as Synkoinonia Hellenike ('Hellenic Communion') to indicate that the city with said government was a full member of a Koinon with Sparte, yet not actually a part of the Spartan system itself. The Type I government could be kept exactly the same in ethos (though I would recommend a name change perhaps to Basilike Synoikia Spartiatike - 'Royal Spartan Synoecism', as this would better account for the direct Spartan domination and the inability to train Spartiates outside of Laconia), as could the Type III and IV (this is of course dependent on whether the government system will still be in M2TW). My other government related comment would be that the Tyrannos Enchorios seems to be exactly the same in ethos as the Polis Symmache Autonome, only with the latter you get a local quisling tyrant, but not with the former. I would suggest further then that the Tyrannos Enchorios government be remained to Oligarchia Hypekoa ('Subject Oligarchy'), something that would retain historicity yet also explain why it doesn't give you a quisling character yet the Type IV does.

The Best way to make the Greek City States is to make them Uber Big Rebel Cities, but somehow make them look like they have their own personalities i.e Banners, Units, so fourth?
When ever Armies attack them use the Deus Lo Vault method of spawning Full Stacks at the City when ever they're attacked?

That way they are not so easily conquered and survive a good deal and even if you take their cities, they can rebel and revolt and it starts all over again?
What do you think?

[Zenith Darksea]

No, because then you wouldn't be able to play as them. A lot of people actually want to do that, including me.

[neoptolemos]

@thebigbossnahhh
Are you kidding old-man?The greek peninsula MUST be represented by 2-3 factions at least!:sparta:
BTW the greek states are essential for EB II!!!

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The Koinon will not be broken up!
It won't be represented by rebels either, though it is much more likely to see a rebel Hellas in EB2 than an independant Sparta, Athens, etc.

With the loyalty component of M2TW, the EB2 scripters are concepting ideas to make the Koinon very internally weak and incapible of expanding or gaining unity, as it was in history.