Billmen

**Thehouse1** · November 25, 2007, 05:51 PM

It seems when I use them, they get massive casualties. How do I use Billmen effectively? What Strats do you use?

**Owen The Wise** · November 25, 2007, 06:03 PM

I've only found them useful to attack from a flank when spear miltia hold off engage the enemy from another side

A bit tricky to pull off effectively

**Thehouse1** · November 25, 2007, 08:00 PM

Any more strats?

**TheJoker** · November 25, 2007, 09:00 PM

Billmen get raped by every other infantry because of the current 2h bug.

only 2 of thier four animations used gainst infantry actually do anything. And they're the slow ones.

Meaning simple spear militia will wtf sauce them.. they're good for chargien the flanks of an armoured unit to crack it's morale open though.

**Bob The Fearless** · November 26, 2007, 09:25 AM

I thought this problem with Billmen had been addressed ? :hmmm:

Can anyone confirm this please ???

I use Billmen quite a lot in my English campaigns and now they seem to work OK to me. Prior to patch 1.2 they did seem quite pants.

What patchies do you have, I'm currently using Kingdoms Retro-fit and all seems fine.

If your unpatched then download and install them, hopefully you'll see a difference.

**TheOnion** · November 26, 2007, 09:41 AM

I play with England and find them quite useless. They march in and get massacred. I use Armored Swordsmen instead

**Lost Crusader** · November 26, 2007, 11:56 AM

Billmen are not to be used to hold a line against heavy infantry or cavalry, as they will be massacred very quickly. Use Armored swordsmen or DFK instead. Use the Billmen against flanks and pinned down units. Their armor piercing attack will cause heavy casualties.
And don't forget to upgrade their armor!

If properly used, Billmen are rather good unit. And cheap, too.

**Druzhina** · November 26, 2007, 12:01 PM

Do you mean Heavy Billmen or Bill Militia? Cause Bill Militia suck, it's the heavy billmen you ought to rely on.

**Captain Spanky** · November 26, 2007, 12:55 PM

Billmen are fantastic units in the early period. Give them mail, and always charge them in, never let them be charged themselves. They are fairly delicate but if support them well with archers/cavalry they can end a melee fairly fast.

**Thehouse1** · November 26, 2007, 04:09 PM

In the retrofit mod there a little bit better I think

**TheJoker** · November 26, 2007, 06:57 PM

I read there was a bug with 2h axces and polearms again.

The one I mentioned in my previous post.

The performance of Gallogliach and Billmen against units they should do well against seems to confirm it..

man for man they get trounced, sadly. Still nice for a cheap flanking uinit to break morale though.

**antaeus** · November 26, 2007, 07:13 PM

what i would love to see...

is a bonus vs spearmen or in particular pikemen..

they already have an ap bonus... which helps represent the way they pulled horsemen/heavy infantry to the ground by hooking armour.. but the english used their billmen to deal to the european style pikes that the scotts sent against them time and time again... - using their billhooks to lop off the speartips of scottish pikes, then batting them aside and marching in. mean.

**supekele** · November 26, 2007, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by antea

what i would love to see...

is a bonus vs spearmen or in particular pikemen..

they already have an ap bonus... which helps represent the way they pulled horsemen/heavy infantry to the ground by hooking armour.. but the english used their billmen to deal to the european style pikes that the scotts sent against them time and time again... - using their billhooks to lop off the speartips of scottish pikes, then batting them aside and marching in. mean.

Keep in mind the billhook was an awesome weapon back then. You could use it as a pseudo spear, or use it for slow, arching strikes in which no armor could protect, you could drag a rider off his horse. It has dozens of uses, it just kinda didn't make it in properly in M2TW.

**nikolai1962** · November 26, 2007, 07:59 PM

I think polearm units should be like hybrid spearmen. Because of the heavier armour what would have been a spear unit in roman times evolved into what is effectively a 2-handed spear with some kind of axe-type head added for cracking heavy armour. Having to trade the protection of a shield for a chance to actually do some damage. Not sure if it's possible to mod the unit stats to get that effect but i think they should be like spearmen when braced in defence e.g against a cavalry charge and like 2H axemen when attacking.

**billerator** · November 27, 2007, 07:38 AM

I thought the billmen/2h bug was fixed by now throught the patches? I don't tend to have any problems billerating (scuse the pun) most enemy infantry with billmen. They're good value for money and can have full (or partial?)plate upgrade if I remember correctly