Heroes

[Halie Satanus]

Yup, Arthur is pretty much historically correct (time wise) and as his existence is somewhat mythical he fitted into the concept quite well. inc real people was going a step beyond what we were putting out and would have messed with the immersion factor. Arthur doesn't because in the back of our mind he wasn't a real person.

The Templars were included for two reasons, one because of their obvious ''warriors of god'' aspect, two because they look coool. Also as the mod is based on a 'hidden history' and the Templars fell out of favour with the church, we could say that saving the world from Satanic dark lords would have been hard to ignore, especially when the church fathers abandon Rome.

[christof139]

King Arthur was before 666AD. Probably around when the Romans left Britain.

That doesn't matter though, since the mod is not historical anyway. Heros for the other factions would have been great too, and that is my point. Besides, a female heroine like St. Joan de Arc would be rather neat IMHO, but I don't do graphics so ...

Good mod anyway, very good.

Chris

[Personified Boredom]

I'm back... and while I'm here, do pardon me for resurrecting a four month-dormant topic.

Anyways, as for the topic at hand; I can think of a number of heroes who fit the time frame.

For either the French/Franks or Germans we have two likely candidates, both of whom were living legends of the time. Firstly, we have Charles Martel, the 'Hammerer' of Al-Ghafiqi. He was indeed at the time considered a savior to Christendom. I don't see how it would be that hard to replace the moslem enemies of he who ensured that the Cross would rule as king over the Crescent in medieval Europe with those of the armies of the Most Evil.

After him comes an obvious candidate in his grandson, none other than Karolus Magnus, or Charlemagne. There is no doubt amongst his important to Europe not only in political and societal matters, but in his actions defending western, Christian Europe from hordes of varied origin. Slavs [at the time largely pagan], Avars, and finally suppressing the last few Moorish raids past the Pyrenees. The man was a legend in his own time.

For the Spaniards, it gets a little harder. Probably the hardest for any of them. The best I can think of is Pelagius of Asturias, who landed the Moslems their first defeat, the very first blow foreshadowing the Reconquista.

The armies of Islam should prevent no problem. Frankly, I also personally find the Islamic faction [my favorite] to be the most under-powered. By the time of the games opening they controlled everything from the Libyan coast to the Hindu Kush, and as far north as Armenia, along with the entire peninsula. *Ahem*. But I'm digressing. Anyways, as for heroes, there are potentially dozens. Or tens of thousands, depending on how many Sahaba you believe there were. Sadly, the Sword of God has been dead for more than a score of years, so you can count him out. We have the founder of the Umayyad's, Muawiyah. After him, perhaps Al-Walid, one of the most effective rulers the Caliphate ever had. Though no warrior on par with the Sword of God, al-Aziz was an incredibly pious man, and were he to have lived through a time as such presented in the game, I would forsee him having little issue taking up the sword and doing battle against the Unholy. While it's more complicated to find 'defined' heroes amongst Islam at the time, unlike in Europe, where famous heroes were present every odd decade in every little hamlet, they are there.

The Bhuddists are a challenge. I can't think of anyone really, until someone presents me with an ancient kingdom[s] to read into. I'll leave that up for someone else.

[Halie Satanus]

It's a shame you weren't around when we were making the mod, it would have been nice to add a few more 'hero's' to the pot but we didn't really think about it at the time, it was just one of those little touches we threw in. For the Hispanics I did consider 'El Cid,' not the Cid but a forbear who for what ever reason had been lost in the passage of time. The great thing about a mod where the basic premise includes a church devised 'conspiracy of silence' is that we could have included any number of hero's with emotive names.

Sadly we didn't, but you are welcome to introduce them yourself.

Islam are slightly under powered it's true, but remember their units are also cheaper at the lower end so numbers should give them parity..

As for the Shambhala, yeh difficult, I was thinking 'Jackie Chan,' but maybe that would have been a bit to silly..

[christof139]

Great ideas for heros!!!

If someone does this I would like to try it or help to do it, although I don't do graphics, but point me in the right direction with some instructions and I can do the editing on the text files.

My ideas for more heros:

1) France: a) Joan of Arc; b) Charles Martel; c) Charlemagne.

2) Germany: a) Siegfried (but of course, the name was used in latter days too you know); b) Gotz von Berlingen (a feisty Baron); c) Frederick Barbarosa.

3) Britain: a) we already have Arthur; b) Alfred the Great; c) the Good King Harold of Wessex.

4) Spain: a) El Cid; b) King Rodrigo; c) Pelagius as stated by the OP Personified Boredom.

5) Islam: a) the Red Lion; b) the fellow that the OP Personified Boredom mentioned; c) Baibars, the mameluk Black Panther, but he was a white guy.

6) Shambala: a) Chandraguptra (sp?); b) Ho Chi Minh, or similar :hmmm:; c) the Great Khan.

7) the Papacy: a) the Fighting Pope, I forget his name but can find it; b) Peter the Hermit (crab or has crabs or is a hermit crab); c) Fulcher the Monk, or whom or whatever, maybe Friar Tuck with a war club/mace/warhammer like Bishop Odo of Normandy etc., d) Mother Superior.

Vanilla leader models could be used for starts, to get going.

Also, could add in a wonder type thing, or a construction level for roads for the Satanae and the Good Guys (everyone else): 1) Satanae, Route 66, minus one 6 but close enough to the 666 thing, so call it Route 666; 2) The Good Guys, Seventy-Seven Sunset Strip, but add a 7 so it will be 777 Sunset Strip, a place and address and not a road but that's OK. :hmmm:

Chris

[sirfiggin]

sorry to wake this sleeping mod from it's well earned rest, but I found someone who could be a suitable hero for the Shambala, none other than Maitreya, the future Buddha! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya_Buddha his coming would usher in a new period of peace, or he'd be such a warrior that he would trample all his foes underfoot!

for the other headless factions, Pelayo sounds the best bet for Hispania, methinks Charlemagne for the Franks, for Rome... would the Nazarene be too much to ask? Only with specific triggers, two christian factions fall, etc, essentially an almost unstoppable general with lots of experience and hitpoints, as well as conversion traits. (not really much point for anything other than the satanae campaign.) Germany....would Beowulf be ok? He was from Scandinavia, and since the story had been passed down orally before it was first written in 8th C AD, he probably lived at the right time.

Thank you guys if you read this, just thought I'd add to the post, though it's a shame the mod dried up after initial release.

[Halie Satanus]

The mod didn't dry up in as much as we released a finished product and moved on to EODII. Granted few mods or rather modders take that path but we didn't see any thing that would greatly improve what we'd already released. Adding hero's can be done by anyone who has time.

[sirfiggin]

sweet

[christof139]

Hi ya'll, you'uns, youse guys (& gals), etc.,

Maybe: 1) Francia: Charles Martel, the Hammer.
2) Hispania: Pelagius (Ln.) or Pelayo (Sp.) as Personified Boredom accurtaely suggests. This is the Asturian that basically started the Reconquista.
3) Germany: Beowulf, Siegfried or Sigurd, from 5th to 7th century Germanic & Nordic tales.
4) Islam: Uqba ibn Nafi, 622 - 683 AD, the Umayyad Caliphate Amir (Emir, General) that was mainly responsible for Islamic expansion into western Libya & Tunisia, although it took many years after his death to finally oust the last of the Byzantines & conquer and assimilate the Berbers etc.
5) Shambhala: Ashoka the Great or Ashoka Chakra (Wheel of Ashoka, the Wheel of Righteousness, the Dharma, that is emblazoned on the modern Indian national flag), or even Siddartha Guatama, the Buddha himself, that was from a noble family & had exposure to military matters.
6) The Papal States: Archbishop Turpin of Reims wielding his sword Almace, who was one of the last 3 Franks to die including Roland in ~778 at the Battle of Roncevaux Pass; or Bishop Adhemar de Montiel (or Le Puy) who seems to have fought as a knight during the First Crusade with both lance & sword; or Bishop Odo of Bayeaux, who fought at Hasting with a wooden club or a metal headed mace, etc.; or Pope Julius II from a later time, 1443-1513 AD, just drop the 'Pope' title or pick a Pope from the right time period, or entitle him 'Archbishop' or 'Bishop' instead of 'Pope'; or, last but not least, & bulging with cooked yeast & ham & ale etc., Friar Tuck himself.

Bless ya'll. Or, curse ya'll to the eternal conflagration of soul-searing & buttocks etc. burning fire & brimstone in Hades. Great balls of fire!

PS: Better make Friar Tuck's name sound Italian, so 'Tuckiloni" or 'Tuckirini' would be OK.
PPS: Shambhala with Elephants are OK; adds a new element against the Satanae Nephlim Knights, but it doesn't unbalance things due to the Ellies cost (no area of recruitment or elephant resource needed due to the high cost - imports you know), & neither do Large Boats for the Shambhala either.

[CapnDan]

Well now I would like to continue the tradition of re-awakening this thread every 6months to a year or so!

Heroes conveniently happen to be the next thing I was thinking about for the "3 new factions" addon.

Instead of playing with scripting and generals though I had thought of making some unique units (one for each faction consisting of a hero with an elite bodyguard) recruited as mercenaries only in the faction's home region with the mercenaries being replenished on an 'extremely rare' sort of basis to essentially guarantee only one hero unit per faction active at a time.

My idea had been to make the hero units strong enough to be able to easily beat any other unit in the game (except other heroes), but could still run the risk of being taken out if surrounded or facing a large enemy force all alone. They'd be a powerful resource to have in your armies and an 'oh no!' sort of unit to see in an enemy force.

Since they would be set up as merc units, they would slowly but surely take casualties that could not be replaced and eventually you'd be down to 1 hero and 1 bodyguard bravely fighting to the last.

Here's the list of hero units I had come up with initially:

Albion: Knights of the round table (fast and powerful cavalry unit)

Francia: Musketeers (first of their kind, protectors of the French monarchy, rifles and swords ideally, give them weak melee defence compared to other heroes but a slightly faster refresh rate for recruitment)

Hispania: El Cid (mounted knights) -needs a model
Germanicae: Sigfried of Xanten (mounted knights) -needs a model

Islam: Couldn't come up with anything that already existed off the top of my head so instead came up with "The Shard" - A great warrior of the Nation of Islam, said to be the minutest amount, a tiny sliver, of the spirit of the angel Gabriel. A gift to mankind and the loyal followers of Islam to aid them in their battle against the forces of darkness.

Papal Seal: I was thinking about maybe "papist fanatics" a very plentiful, fairly cheap, and low-mid quality unit that can be recruited in Italy only by the Papal faction or any faction that conquers Rome (kind of gives more of a reason to try and conquer Rome that way too). -needs model

Satanae: Though about 'Magicians' (maybe ask if models could be borrowed from '300 Warlords of Sparta' mod) give them a short-medium ranged petrol bomb type attack?

Shambahala: General Karzai (awesome mounted model from Blue Lotus TW) - A former Qin general sent West to destroy the Shambhala but ultimately converted to Buddhism and joined their ranks. He now serves as one of the Shambhala's greatest military leaders! (mounted unit, strong ranged attack, strong armour, and good melee)

Akagi: Miyamoto Musashi (powerful infantry unit, Musashi with sword, bodyguard with polearms and swords)


Qin: Imperial Special Forces

Kushan: Incarnation of Kali (strong melee infantry unit, again Blue Lotus TW has a really excellent model to borrow for this) - The Kushan priestly caste has declared this to be the spirit of Kali incarnate, come to guide and support the Kushan princes in the coming holy war. While the non-believers may claim it's just a 4 armed freak wearing a scary mask and painted blue, the loyal soldiers of the Kushan are certain their gods have come to join them in glorious and righteous battle. And even the non-believers rightfully fear the bodyguard of experienced warriors who accompany this being into the fray.


So, what do you think?

[tianzong]

Sigfried from the nibelungs legend?
ALso maybe you should the berserk addition to the special forces of Qin.

For the rest it looks good

[tianzong]

sorry to wake this sleeping mod from it's well earned rest, but I found someone who could be a suitable hero for the Shambala, none other than Maitreya, the future Buddha! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya_Buddha his coming would usher in a new period of peace, or he'd be such a warrior that he would trample all his foes underfoot!

for the other headless factions, Pelayo sounds the best bet for Hispania, methinks Charlemagne for the Franks, for Rome... would the Nazarene be too much to ask? Only with specific triggers, two christian factions fall, etc, essentially an almost unstoppable general with lots of experience and hitpoints, as well as conversion traits. (not really much point for anything other than the satanae campaign.) Germany....would Beowulf be ok? He was from Scandinavia, and since the story had been passed down orally before it was first written in 8th C AD, he probably lived at the right time.

Thank you guys if you read this, just thought I'd add to the post, though it's a shame the mod dried up after initial release.

PLEASE DON'T ADD THE BUDDHA!!! He is to well respected to wage war! It would be the same as adding jezus or mohammed to the mod!!

[Halie Satanus]

Sounds good.

Interesting idea for the Papal unit, maybe..

[CapnDan]

That is an interesting idea. Did you have anything particular in mind in terms of distinct skills/gameplay for them?

[atheniandp]

Well now I would like to continue the tradition of re-awakening this thread every 6months to a year or so!

Heroes conveniently happen to be the next thing I was thinking about for the "3 new factions" addon.

Instead of playing with scripting and generals though I had thought of making some unique units (one for each faction consisting of a hero with an elite bodyguard) recruited as mercenaries only in the faction's home region with the mercenaries being replenished on an 'extremely rare' sort of basis to essentially guarantee only one hero unit per faction active at a time.

My idea had been to make the hero units strong enough to be able to easily beat any other unit in the game (except other heroes), but could still run the risk of being taken out if surrounded or facing a large enemy force all alone. They'd be a powerful resource to have in your armies and an 'oh no!' sort of unit to see in an enemy force.

Since they would be set up as merc units, they would slowly but surely take casualties that could not be replaced and eventually you'd be down to 1 hero and 1 bodyguard bravely fighting to the last.

Here's the list of hero units I had come up with initially:

Albion: Knights of the round table (fast and powerful cavalry unit)

Francia: Musketeers (first of their kind, protectors of the French monarchy, rifles and swords ideally, give them weak melee defence compared to other heroes but a slightly faster refresh rate for recruitment)

Hispania: El Cid (mounted knights) -needs a model
Germanicae: Sigfried of Xanten (mounted knights) -needs a model

Islam: Couldn't come up with anything that already existed off the top of my head so instead came up with "The Shard" - A great warrior of the Nation of Islam, said to be the minutest amount, a tiny sliver, of the spirit of the angel Gabriel. A gift to mankind and the loyal followers of Islam to aid them in their battle against the forces of darkness.

Papal Seal: I was thinking about maybe "papist fanatics" a very plentiful, fairly cheap, and low-mid quality unit that can be recruited in Italy only by the Papal faction or any faction that conquers Rome (kind of gives more of a reason to try and conquer Rome that way too). -needs model

Satanae: Though about 'Magicians' (maybe ask if models could be borrowed from '300 Warlords of Sparta' mod) give them a short-medium ranged petrol bomb type attack?

Shambahala: General Karzai (awesome mounted model from Blue Lotus TW) - A former Qin general sent West to destroy the Shambhala but ultimately converted to Buddhism and joined their ranks. He now serves as one of the Shambhala's greatest military leaders! (mounted unit, strong ranged attack, strong armour, and good melee)

Akagi: Miyamoto Musashi (powerful infantry unit, Musashi with sword, bodyguard with polearms and swords)


Qin: Imperial Special Forces

Kushan: Incarnation of Kali (strong melee infantry unit, again Blue Lotus TW has a really excellent model to borrow for this) - The Kushan priestly caste has declared this to be the spirit of Kali incarnate, come to guide and support the Kushan princes in the coming holy war. While the non-believers may claim it's just a 4 armed freak wearing a scary mask and painted blue, the loyal soldiers of the Kushan are certain their gods have come to join them in glorious and righteous battle. And even the non-believers rightfully fear the bodyguard of experienced warriors who accompany this being into the fray.


So, what do you think?

Very neat idea!

Here's some suggestions you may find interesting:

Francia: Joan of Arc/ The Maid of Orleans - perhaps a heavy knight unit ala Age of Empires 2.
Albion: Robin of Locksley/ Robin Hood - archer hero.
Beowulf - heavy infantry
Papal Seal: Cardinals - Mounted or dismounted, perhaps you could use the model for the flaggelants (?) from the Warhammer mod.
Satanae: Alchemists - Magician type units as mentioned.
Freemason cultists/ 33rd Degree Master Masons - (playing on conspiracy theories)
Hispania: Bullfighters

[Halie Satanus]

That is an interesting idea. Did you have anything particular in mind in terms of distinct skills/gameplay for them?

Not really. Caius Britannicus came up with the unit for his 'Crusades' mod (there was a unit card image so he must have made the unit)... If I recall correctly he didn't include them in the final release. Caius now goes by the name 'Disgruntled Goat.' Maybe you could ask him if he still has the unit and if you can have it. If he still has it..

[CapnDan]

Oh wow, checked the link and those sound pretty much right on!
I will make the inquiry to see if these can be had.

[CapnDan]

Well I've made some really good progress recently and have hero units all up and running (only in skirmishes at this point) for every faction but the Satanae. The folks from "The Crusades" mod have been kind enough to lend some of their work which I've used for the western faction heroes and they really do look great!


I'm still not completely sure what to do with the Satanae faction though. I've been considering just making all their units just slightly cheaper instead of giving them a hero unit proper. Any thoughts?

[Halie Satanus]

These look really good, especially the crusades units which fit really well.. The Satanae are difficult because they already had some fairly fantastical looking units. I'd be tempted to go the other way with them. There's some units in EoD 2 (druids or Lycans) that might fit, I always liked the black guy with white eyes, I actually took that face from a photo of a voodoo zombie I found on line..

'Horde of the Unclean.' Cheap but fairly strong, only recruit-able in one place (to stop spamming)..

I'm not very good with balancing which is always a problem when coming up with 'special' units..

[godofruin]

anyone got screen shots of the custom heroes of each faction?