is the idea of a christian "just war" legit

[nce_wht_guy]

I was just wondering if you believe we, as christians, do have the right to go to war on the basis of faith. I understand to many christian today it is a foreign idea, but i sometimes feel like we may be allowed to do so for defensive purposes. I also wonder what you guys think of the idea of going to war to expand the influence of our faith( not to make people convert but to allow for missionary work in places were it may be illegal)

[sephodwyrm]

do have the right to go to war on the basis of faith

If you're looking forward to pissing off true Christians go ahead.

[nce_wht_guy]

its not something i'm necessarily in favor of. I just think that it may be permissable for self defense

[Safekeeper]

What exactly do you mean here? If you ask if it's OK to defend yourself if an army threatens some aspect of your culture (such as your religion), then yes. If you ask if it's OK to start a war if you feel your culture is under threat from non-violent influences? Absolutely not. Starting a war to spread your culture? Even less so.

[nce_wht_guy]

any one else have opinions on this?

[MaximiIian]

any one else have opinions on this?

Well, this isn't a Christian view, but this does offer some other opinions on the matter of faith-based wars:
From a Wiccan/Neopagan perspective, war should never be waged for the purpose of spreading one's faith, and religion should, likewise, never be used a reason or justification for a conflict.

Only in self-defence, or in the defence of one's loved ones, or for the defence of humanity and the earth as a whole, can a war or conflict be justified. Anything else is harmful, and direct causation of harm is the supreme wrong. Conflict, harm, and offensive action is justifiable only when greater harm is caused by inaction, such as self-defence or defence of loved ones.

I'm not talking about a nation declaring war on another country for religious reasons, I mean the greater christian community moblizing itself to fight a genuine threat to their faith or fellow believers. Like what many muslims did in afghanistan when they fought the soviets.

So, you're actually suggesting that, despite all the progress mainstream Christianity has made in the last century for the cause of pacifism, that the Christian community should take a step backwards?

[James Cook]

I also wonder what you guys think of the idea of going to war to expand the influence of our faith

Now this is the wery reason why this BS religion christ allah,
budda or what the **** its been called, should be baned for ever.

killing ppl for a buntch shiet like this should not be allowed

[AngryTitusPullo]

killing ppl for a buntch shiet like this should not be allowed

Killing, without a valid cause shouldn't be allowed in any way.

[hellas1]

Hi NWG,

As a christian, I DO believe that a just war is one in war is conducted againsts Fascists who (I.E. WW2) move against non Fascists to dominate them and the rest of the world.

Special Note:
Meekness doesn't equate to weakness & Murder for one's religion if NEVER justified. These are 2 very big weird views non Christians have about Christianity and Christians.

To qualify what I mean: Take Pol Pot (A fascist with a "Communist" mask) for example, ALL of Cambodia wept when he died, not because they missed him but because justice (physical) could not be done to him while alive.

The Crusades were NOT "just wars" as they were spurred by Catholic Christian (of that time period only) propaganda of "going to heaven, kill a heathen" mindset. The then Catholic Church was so corrupt that when a convent near a lake in Italy was drained to make room for land/property, 2000 or 3000 infant skulls were found in the drained lake.

Curiously enough, in Eastern Orthodoxy (Byzantine's what I'm referring to primarily) there never was nor is a concept of "crusade" or "jihad" as they are both extremes! I know, I'm Greek and was brought up Greek Orthodox.

As a caveat for smartasses:
Christianity isn't the only religion that caused religious wars.
Dig?

hellas1

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

The Crusades were NOT "just wars" as they were spurred by Catholic Christian (of that time period only) propaganda of "going to heaven, kill a heathen" mindset.

So this means they were unjust according to you or according to Europeans of the time? If the former, why would or (more to the point) HOW could Eleventh to Twelfth Century people see the world via the mindset of a culture 800 years in the future? That's like expecting you to think like people in the year 2807 AD.

They didn't think like you or see the world the way you do. How could they? To them, those reasons for the Crusades were not only perfectly valid, but also high, noble and wonderful. You disagree? Who cares - what you think is irrelevant.

The then Catholic Church was so corrupt that when a convent near a lake in Italy was drained to make room for land/property, 2000 or 3000 infant skulls were found in the drained lake.

Apart from being irrelevant to this discussion (how do the actions of one convent or even a lot of convents make everything else about the Medieval Church instantly invalid?), that story sounds like classic anti-Catholic propaganda from the Nineteenth Century. Got a reference or any evidence for that or is it something you've just sort of "heard" somewhere?

[Maverick]

Now this is the wery reason why this BS religion christ allah,
budda or what the **** its been called, should be baned for ever.

killing ppl for a buntch shiet like this should not be allowed

Yes, we shouldn't kill people over something so abstract as faith, we should kill them for their resources.

Killing, without a valid cause shouldn't be allowed in any way.

What's a valid cause? When do the people who decide to make war actually fight in it?

The then Catholic Church was so corrupt that when a convent near a lake in Italy was drained to make room for land/property, 2000 or 3000 infant skulls were found in the drained lake.

Sounds interesting, where did you read about that? The Catholic Church "was" corrupt?

[AngryTitusPullo]

What's a valid cause?

To defend yourself, to defend your family, to defend your country. Two sides fighting a war, the one who attack do not have a valid reason as the one who defend.

When do the people who decide to make war actually fight in it?

Long time ago it happened. Alexander, Caesar, Muhammad all participate in them.

[Cúchulainn]

Now this is the wery reason why this BS religion christ allah,
buddha or what the **** its been called, should be baned for ever.

Why do people always mention Buddha.
Buddha's not a god.

He's not worshipped.

And Buddhism isn't intolerant.
When is the last time your heard of a monk with a RPG!!

On Topic.

A "defender of the faith" war is just that, a war but without the Geneva Convention.
That's all.

[Exarch]

Now this is the wery reason why this BS religion christ allah,
budda or what the **** its been called, should be baned for ever.

killing ppl for a buntch shiet like this should not be allowed

funny y'dont hear much about buddhist crusades or buddhist inquisitions

[nce_wht_guy]

so Thutmose, Thiudareiks what are your opinions exactly on religiously motivated warfare?

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

so Thutmose, Thiudareiks what are your opinions exactly on religiously motivated warfare?

It's about the worst excuse for killing people I can possibly imagine. It's bad enough that people fight wars over things that are real, let alone killing each other in the name of their invisible imaginary friends.

I understand to many christian today it is a foreign idea, but i sometimes feel like we may be allowed to do so for defensive purposes.

Who exactly would be going to war for these "defensive purposes"? Would the Christians (which ones?) in a country declare war in their own right? Or would the country declare war to "defend Christianity"? Can you name a country that is so steadfastly, uniformly and entirely Christian that this would be possible? Because most countries these says are pluralist democracies that tolerate all religions and so wouldn't go declaring war in the name of one religion.

I also wonder what you guys think of the idea of going to war to expand the influence of our faith( not to make people convert but to allow for missionary work in places were it may be illegal)

See above. What nation on Earth would do this?

I think you were born about 400 years too late.

[nce_wht_guy]

I'm not talking about a nation declaring war on another country for religious reasons, I mean the greater christian community moblizing itself to fight a genuine threat to their faith or fellow believers. Like what many muslims did in afghanistan when they fought the soviets.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

I'm not talking about a nation declaring war on another country for religious reasons, I mean the greater christian community moblizing itself to fight a genuine threat to their faith or fellow believers. Like what many muslims did in afghanistan when they fought the soviets.

You're indulging in a really weird fantasy.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I was just wondering if you believe we, as christians, do have the right to go to war on the basis of faith. I understand to many christian today it is a foreign idea, but i sometimes feel like we may be allowed to do so for defensive purposes. I also wonder what you guys think of the idea of going to war to expand the influence of our faith( not to make people convert but to allow for missionary work in places were it may be illegal)

No, you do not.

[basics]

Christians have been dying on battlefields for centuries so your question of the legitimacy of them doing so is summed up by Paul when he instructs all Christians to obey the authority in which they are under.

This of course places many at odds with their brothers in Christ who may be serving an opposing authority and have done. Paul's point I believe is that they are doing their duty as Christians. Saying that it is something that I as a Christian have struggled with.

But then when the overall picture is seen in that a Christian is no longer to consider him or herself part of this world but the world to come it begins to make sense. We don't fight to promote our faith on others for that itself cannot deliver faith in others. Faith being a gift from God is not therefore something we can force into anyone.

Whether the authority that we serve is just and proper is something that history, as far as the world is concerned, will judge later and what the great High Judge will determine in the future but will have no effect on the regenerate of whatever side.