Geneals Bodyguard

[Galdrik]

Hi and thaks for making this very good mod for M2TW
But i have one issue that is realy getting on my nerves. It seems to me that the Generals Bodyguard of eastern european factions (Turks/egypt/Byzantium) is just too powerfull. They are suppose to be better in melee than western "charge" cav, but come on, they are standing their ground against several units of infantery+spear and causing great casualties before dying. I have checked the enemy`s generals before battle, and none of them have +hit points virute. Im playing as templars atm on VH/VH, and im doing quite well, but it realy annoys me that they are so overpowered.
Is there some way for me to mod this, and if so, what should i do to get them to be more mortal? Dont want them to be gimps, just want to tone down their immortality abit. Only way i can safely kill them now is by trebbing lol
Thanks in advance

[whhyy]

Go to your stainless_steel/data folder

Open export_descr_unit.txt

Press Ctrl-F

Type in 'bodyguard'

Press enter untill you get to NE Bodyguard

Look for this line:

formation 2, 4.4, 3, 6, 2, square
stat_health 2, 0 - change the 2 to 1
stat_pri 6, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 25, 1

Keep pressing enter untill you do it to every bodyguard

If you don't want to change the other bodyguards just look for ME_Bodyguard and Greek_Bodyguard



If you want to do the above then I recommend you change the unit size as well to compensate:

banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier NE_Bodyguard, 8, 0, 1 e.g Change the 8 to 16
mount barded horse

[Landwalker]

I'm curious about the extenuating circumstances of your encounters with eastern bodyguards. What spear units are you engaging them with? The whole point of general's bodyguard units is "cause great casualties before dying", so, especially if you're going after them with only Spear Militia, I would expect your results to be typical and appropriate, especially given that you're playing on Very Hard. It always baffles me when people complain about certain enemy units being too tough, too strong, too difficult to defeat, when they're playing on the hardest difficulty setting to begin with. If you don't want the eastern bodyguard units to stand their ground for a long time and cause great amounts of casualties, stop playing on a difficulty level that gives huge bonuses to the stats of enemy soldiers. :hmmm:

Cheers.

[Galdrik]

I'm curious about the extenuating circumstances of your encounters with eastern bodyguards. What spear units are you engaging them with? The whole point of general's bodyguard units is "cause great casualties before dying", so, especially if you're going after them with only Spear Militia, I would expect your results to be typical and appropriate, especially given that you're playing on Very Hard. It always baffles me when people complain about certain enemy units being too tough, too strong, too difficult to defeat, when they're playing on the hardest difficulty setting to begin with. If you don't want the eastern bodyguard units to stand their ground for a long time and cause great amounts of casualties, stop playing on a difficulty level that gives huge bonuses to the stats of enemy soldiers. :hmmm:

Cheers.

Hi and thanks for your replay
I dont mind units being hard and im well aware that i play on VH/VH But the enemy bodyguard seems to be out of balance compared to anything else i have encountred. Lets take one battle i just had. it was against the turks. The BG charged my dismounted templars and killed some in the charge. I quickly throwed in my reserve noble spearmen but they killed almost none. I have to add that all this time i had some infantery on me also. But even when i had engaged the spearmen on the BG they killed almost none, while the BG hacked away at my troops. I even supported more with some seargent spearmen (about 1/2) unit, but still they would not die, in melee. They also killed away my own BG quite easy so i had to pull them back. So in the end, my left flank broke cause of thise 15 super soldiers.
Oh and difficulty dont mess with unit stats, its the moral.

[Evan]

changing NE Bodyguard won't edit the Eastern factions' bodyguards!

[whhyy]

Also try not to "swarm" the bodyguard. You could attack it more.. tactically. Otherwise things just turn into a mess and you give the enemy bodyguard the upper hand.

I recommend distracting them with some infantry and flanking them from behind with some knights or, preferably, your own bodyguard.


@ Evan

I know. That's the first bodyguard in the file so he may want to start there so other bodyguards don't have an unfair advantage.

Read the step after the NE Bodyguard

@ Landwalker

The difficulty level does not effect the stats of any unit.

[Landwalker]

@ Landwalker

The difficulty level does not effect the stats of any unit.

No? Hmm... What does it affect, then? I passingly remember higher difficulty settings in Rome giving pretty hefty stat bonuses to AI units, at least based on my experience with Europa Barbarorum (and their forums in particular). I assumed (apparently incorrectly?) that the same principle had been carried over to Medieval 2.

What, then, does higher battle difficulty affect? Because it certainly doesn't make the AI any smarter, as far as I can tell...

Cheers.

[whhyy]

A CA member has said that the AI is supposed to be harder on H/VH than the others.

They act differently I think. e.g. they're more likely to try to take the high ground. In my experience the Vanilla AI on H/VH is more inclined to attack even if they are strategically the defender. Not sure though - just something I noticed.

[Landwalker]

A CA member has said that the AI is supposed to be harder on H/VH than the others.

They act differently I think. e.g. they're more likely to try to take the high ground. In my experience the Vanilla AI on H/VH is more inclined to attack even if they are strategically the defender. Not sure though - just something I noticed.

Huh, that's odd. I would think having the AI attack even when it's the defender would just be making it dumber, since it's abandoning the advantage of making you come to it and allowing you to meet it on your terms, rather than on theirs.

Was the CA member referring to the AI being harder in the sense of being "better"? Or was he simply using a misleading statement to refer to blanket bonuses being given to AI units, making them "harder" to defeat in the same situations, as opposed to them putting you in more difficult situations but without any bonuses?

Cheers.

Edit: I also seem to recall, from my time on the Yuku board, that when people were running tests to establish which of two units was stronger (e.g. Venetian Heavy Infantry vs. Janissary Heavy Infantry), the declared format was using Medium battle difficulty, on the grounds that on higher difficulties the AI unit was artificially enhanced.

[whhyy]

They're supposed to be better.

There has been a lot of discussion on this topic. Nobody found anything that suggests that they get a stat bonus.

I don't see why CA would try to cover it up.. Especially since they're telling the people that already purchased the game and many other RTS give stat bonuses.

Just saying what I heard.

[Point Blank]

There are no stat bonuses depending on difficulty level in M2TW apparently.

[Point Blank]

Generals are just elite cavalry with +1 attack, defense and morale. They are only marginally better, its the 2HP that makes them so tough. As whhyy said above, try making them 1HP and increasing the unit size to 12 or 16.

[Galdrik]

Generals are just elite cavalry with +1 attack, defense and morale. They are only marginally better, its the 2HP that makes them so tough. As whhyy said above, try making them 1HP and increasing the unit size to 12 or 16.

Ok thanks

They have insane armour (11) and defence (21) also when i look more closely at the stats.
Im abit afraid to gimp them

[Point Blank]

The armor is because they are riding an armored horse.

[smitty]

While playing 4.1 as the Knights Templar I too complained of the difficulty of killing these bodyguards. After a lot of consideration though, I decided it wasn't such a bad thing they're so hard to kill. One thing I tried to remind myself of was that my troops were always exhausted by the time they encountered the bodyguard because of their heavy armor and their desert setting. I didn't feel it was too exaggerated for a bodyguard, being the best trained and equipped soldiers in the kingdom, to inflict serious casualties on a group of spear militia of all units. I got a bit more disconcerted as I noticed similar though not as high casualty rates amongst my zweihanders, which are supposed to dominate cavalry.

Also, the AI is often quite dumb to use their bodyguard at the moments they do, and their invincibility can be a factor for remedying their stupid maneuvers into the middle of a spear-based melee engagement. I agree that somebody should further look into how to tone them down a bit, but remember that their current strength can be argued quite effectively.

[gogis]

I got a bit more disconcerted as I noticed similar though not as high casualty rates amongst my zweihanders, which are supposed to dominate cavalry.

Uhm, no. Two-handed swords was never meant to be anti cavalry. Do more research

[burninglegionx]

remember, in real life, bodyguards will still fight on foot after the horses fall, you're lucky that they die when the horse dies

[Ataegina]

well makes sense, they're bodyguard's for some reason... to be very tough guys =P

[republic_bohemia]

immortality I agree too,next pacth.

[Iscariott]

Soften with crossbows, block charge with well armored and well trained spearmen(militia need not apply). Charge flank/rear with either your own heavy cav, or with cav killers. Get nifty little minicutscene. Hardly immortal, while still being the best of the best.