The Teutonic "T"

**Kip** · November 17, 2007, 05:33 PM

Hey guys, I've been looking at the "T" motif on some of the Teutonic troops, and just out of curiosity, what is it exactly? Is it a letter "T" to stand for Teuton, or is it a special kind of Cross insignia?

**Paul d** · November 17, 2007, 06:22 PM

Its the teutonic order sign, the Black cross on a White surcoat.
lol no it does not stand for a "t"

**Herr Doktor** · November 17, 2007, 09:43 PM

Paul d is correct, it was a symbol used for the Teutonic order although usage of the cross pattée was more official. Elaborating on that, however, I believe that they are using it as the Greek letter Tau which became associated with the redemption of Christ and a symbol of the cross. Interesting enough, the article about the letter Tau on Wikipedia states that it was inscribed on individuals who lamented sin in the old testament and was the favourite symbol of the Franciscan order.

**DaLeGiOnArY** · November 18, 2007, 04:02 AM

omg...
seriously take that picture outta your sig. it should give you the answer.

oh yeah,and its the simbol of teutons. a black crass on white back ground. I.E. templars are red cross on white hospitalers are white cross on black. simple sistem

**Kip** · November 18, 2007, 09:05 AM

Dalegionary, I'm not that dumb.

I'm not talking about the black CROSS on the white field, I'm talking about the black capital T shape on the white field. They are different.

My question was if this T-shape was a modified cross. I wasn't asking about the actual cross.

**Lord Condormanius** · November 18, 2007, 12:27 PM

St. Anthony's cross. It is a cross that looks like a T. It is not limited to the Teutonic order (maybe it is in the game, but not in real life). I wear one around my neck.

Read about it here:

http://www.crosses.org/history.htm

**Rex Cobalt** · November 18, 2007, 01:10 PM

I guess different forms of the cross and cloth colours are related to the hierachical structure of the order.

Although few in numbers, Ritterbrueder (Brother Knights) formed the backbone of the order's structure. Together with their superiors (Hochmeister, Landmeister, Komture, Gebieter etc) they executed the Order´s will. The white tunic and mantle with full cross was awarded after taking the vow.

Priesterbrüder (Brother Priests) were non-combatants, they had administrative or sanitary tasks. They wore a simple black or white robe with the full cross.

Knappen (Knaves) were of noble descent and knight aspirants. They wore a white tunic with the Half (Tau) cross, no mantle.

Sarjant- or Laienbrueder (Sergeants?) were auxiliary troops, sometimes taking the classical function of knaves, supporting the Ritterbrueder. They wore a grey tunic and mantle with the full cross.

Halbbrueder (Half Brothers) were distined for mixed farming labour. They wore a short cape with Tau cross and wide sleeves on top of a long skirt.

**MunichRules** · November 19, 2007, 12:09 PM

Yes i also realised it yesterday that spearmen unit have a symbol like a "T" on her armour.

to the source ( http://www.crosses.org/history.htm):
Tau cross= old testament = hä ????
Old testament --> no Jesus ---> no Cross
what are they talking about. And also before Jesus was crucified no symbol of cross had ever any religious function

**Samuel Adams** · November 19, 2007, 03:10 PM

The Cross was a massive execution style used in Roman times. Very early christians did not use the sign of the cross as we do (i.e. the crucifix on my neck), rather it came into use as a symbol around 300 AD-3 centuries after the death of Christ. The only reason the "t" rather than "T" shape is used generally is the account of the sign being hammered on the cross above Christ's head by Pilate. Even that has it's own type, used by Hungary in the game unless I'm mistaken. So they're all crosses stemming from various types of Roman execution crosses used at the time Christ was executed.

**Hunter Makoy** · November 19, 2007, 03:32 PM

yeah i think hungary does have the cross with a second shorter horizontal bar which would symbolize the sign on the cross.

but who here knows wat it read? (with out looking it up)

**Lord Condormanius** · November 19, 2007, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Hunter Makoy

yeah i think hungary does have the cross with a second shorter horizontal bar which would symbolize the sign on the cross.

but who here knows wat it read? (with out looking it up)

King of the Jews...no?

edit

...although probably not in English.

**Kip** · November 19, 2007, 04:39 PM

Thanks for the responses.

I was just confused because of the coincidence that Teutonic starts with a "T", and even though I doubted they had a baseball logo on their tunics, I thought I'd check with you guys

**Hunter Makoy** · November 19, 2007, 11:07 PM

LC i think ur very much right. i didn't know for sure, thats y i posted the question

as far as language, i would asume latin, but i believe it may be in greek for some reason. (or possibly aramaic (sp?))

**Lord Condormanius** · November 20, 2007, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Hunter Makoy

LC i think ur very much right. i didn't know for sure, thats y i posted the question

as far as language, i would asume latin, but i believe it may be in greek for some reason. (or possibly aramaic (sp?))

Latin...I had to look it up.

IESVS NAZARENVS REX IVDAEORUM (Jesus the Nazarine, King of the Jews).

**Hunter Makoy** · November 20, 2007, 01:19 AM

figured thats wat it was. i tried to look it up but didn't get anywhere on it.

but on the hungarian cross showing the head board. the eastern orthadox cross features the headboard and the foot rest. the foot rest is slanted because of his writhing in pain, and is slanted up to the left, the side that the redeemed criminal was on.