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    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    I would like to know how free trade is beneficial for a country because this article appears to say not really.


    One of the greatest international economic debates of all time has been the issue of free trade versus protectionism. Proponents of free trade believe in opening the global market, with as few restrictions on trade as possible. Proponents of protectionism believe in concentrating on the welfare of the domestic economy by limiting the open-market policy of the United States. However, what effects does this policy have for the international market and the other respective countries in this market? The question is not as complex as it may seem. Both sides have strong viewpoints representing their respective opinions, and even the population of the United States is divided when it comes to taking a stand in the issue. After examining all factors on the two conflicting sides, it is clear that protectionism, from the side of the United States, is the only way the American industrial economy can expand for the benefit of its citizens and for its national welfare. The economy needs to get itself out of the huge deficit hole that it has created for itself, and lean towards protectionist measures. The dictionary definition of free trade states it as a policy of allowing people of one country to buy and sell from other countries without restrictions. This idea originated with the influential British economist, philosopher, and author of The Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith. He inspired the writings of great economists such as David Ricardo, Karl Marx, Thomas Malthus, and others. According to Smith, specialization and trade is the best solution to create a flourishing American economy, with its industries ruling the economic world. William H. Peterson, holder of the Lundy Chair of Business Philosophy at Campbell University, agrees with Smith’s philosophy. He states that the idea of free trade allows the efficient use of economic resources and will promote international cooperation. One of the biggest examples of international cooperation is the Bretton Woods system that originated from a 1944 conference at Bretton Woods, New Hampshire. Those participants in this conference created three organizations to help regulate the international economy. The first is the International Monetary Fund (IMF) which was established with the idea of regulating monetary policy. One of the benchmarks of the IMF is the stabilization of exchange rates and the loaning of money to help stabilize countries with balance of payments deficits. The second organization established was the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) whose main focus was on a liberal trading order. Their mission was to reduce trade barriers on manufactured goods and to build-up the principle of most-favored nation (MFN) status. This would impose a sense of fairness between countries in that each was required to levy the same low tariffs on each others imports. The third and final organization sponsored by Bretton Woods is the World Bank. The World Bank’s most ambitious aim was the fostering of economic development. This is accomplished through loans to struggling countries. In addition to the World Bank, the International Finance Corporation was annexed to provide loans to corporations who are seen to help aide in poor countries’ development. These three organizations within the Bretton Woods agreement captured the cooperation of the global community due to the one thing they all found in common: a commitment to a free market and economic freedom. In the 17th and 18th century, the American revolution was triggered by the Sugar Act of 1764 and the Stamp Act of 1765. The Sugar Act imposed import duties on foreign molasses, sugar, wine, and other commodities. The Stamp Act provided a tax on all important documents, periodicals, almanacs, pamphlets, and playing cards. The colonists believed that these control practices were unfounded since they advocated “No taxation without Representation.” These protectionist measures contributed to the conflict which led to the American revolution. Similarly, protectionism also led to the Civil War. During the Civil War era, the industrial North was goading the agricultural South through the highly disputed Tariff of Abominations of 1828 and 1832. This high tariff protected the northern manufactures while the South demanded a low tariff in order to trade its cotton for cheap foreign goods. Eventually, these conflicts led to issues of secession, which thus led to the Civil War. Through these examples, Peterson argued that protectionist movements have never succeeded in the past, which means that they will not succeed in today’s economy. Peterson seems to have forgotten several factors in his analysis. Even though it is correct to use mistakes of the past economies as examples, he has forgotten the fact that the international economic climate is continually changing and is blatantly different from how it was during the times of the American Revolution and the Civil War. Peterson is using positive analysis by looking at “what will happen” to the US economy and the international economy, rather than looking at the issue using normative analysis and seeing “what should happen.” What should happen should be seen in respect to the conditions of the modern American economy and the international market. What may have happened with past protectionist measures does not necessarily mean that similar conflicts will repeat in the present. By tightening the laxity of the American free trade policy, wars should not occur. Quite the opposite, wars will be prevented by eliminating the tenacious competition between the United States and the other nations. One major strategy used to manage trade differences between countries is regular economic summits among leading industrial nations to create economic policies. These economic summits were born in 1975 from the ideas of French President Valery Giscard d’Estaing who was looking for a solution after the demise of the Bretton Woods system and saw the need for international economic stability. These summits are held yearly with growing participation from the global community. The main goals at these summits is global economic stabilization within the context of important political issues. Brink Lindsey, a trade attorney in Washington DC, also believes that free trade will benefit the United States’ economy. According to Lindsey, not only will producers benefit from free trade, but consumers will as well. The US industries will benefit from foreign markets and the drive for competition, so free trade should become the cornerstone of American policy. One of the most important trade agreements of the twentieth century that reflects this viewpoint is The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), which was signed in August of 1992 and involved the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. This agreement seeks to remove tariffs and other trade impediments in automobiles, energy, agriculture, banking, advertising, textiles, and other areas. Its main initiative is to enhance prosperity in all three countries, which encompasses 370 million people. The United States may have come out victorious during the Cold War, but now the military competition has been replaced by economic confrontation (mainly between the US, Europe, and Japan). A good example of the tensions between the United States, Japan, and Europe can be best seen in The Uruguay Round which lasted from 1986-1993. The Uruguay Round addressed some explosive issues such as rules for governing intellectual property rights, non-tariff barriers, agricultural subsidies, and trade in services. Few issues such as these ignited great hostility between these three nations as these did. But by far the most controversial issue was that of agricultural subsides because it is deeply imbedded in the domestic politics of most every nation. Efforts to reduce agricultural subsidies were violently opposed by Japan and Europe, especially France. In 1992, following these aggressions, the US and Europe marginally escaped a trade war because of US retaliation consisting of the increase of tariffs on European exports like wine and of France’s refusal to accept any measure of change. The Uruguay Round’s most important contribution was a powerful new World Trade Organization (WTO) which replaced the outdated GATT organization. Its main function is to set up three member arbitration panels to decide if countries are violating the agreement, make them correct such violations and pay for damages, and even authorize retaliation against violators. Even though America seems to be the only country with a free trade policy, Lindsey argues that this statement is untrue. Import barriers are falling in different parts of the world, including Japan. Between 1968-1988 import growth has skyrocketed several times faster for America’s leading trading partners. Merchandise trade among the developed countries more than quadrupled between 1963-1973; increased over two and a half times from 1973-1983; and grew almost one and a half times again between 1983-1986. From 1960-1986, the percentage of GDP derived from trade (exports plus imports) doubled to 14.4 percent in the US, gained an average of 63 percent in the EC countries, and remained constant in Japan at 17.3 percent. Specifically, import rises in Japan and West Germany has been almost as large as that of America’s. Even though other countries may be letting down their import barriers, it is not necessary for the United States to follow suit and further open its doors of economic trade. The American industrial economy is self-sufficient and does not need to rely heavily on the products of other nations. A good example of the United States shutting its doors to economic trade is the collapse of the Bretton Woods system. The dismantling of the system is a direct result of the actions of the United States, namely the “Nixon shock.” This refers to the announcement made by the Nixon administration in 1970 in which the administration concluded that it could no longer justify the expense of subsidizing global trade. The administration saw a direct correlation between the inflation and balance-of-payments deficit that was plaguing the US and the unfair advantage the US provided for its self in subsidizing global trade. The administration believed the only way to combat Japanese and European discrimination against US exports, was to break away from fixed exchange rates. The United States is a capital-intensive country, meaning that its inputs consist mostly of machinery, in contrast to labor-intensive countries in which labor controls the output of the economy. For example, in 1970 the labor costs of the US and of West Germany were twice that of Japan. By 1986, the labor costs were comparatively equal. Also in 1970, US manufacturing productivity was 58 percent greater than West Germany and 105 percent greater than Japan. By 1986, these figures had fallen to 20 percent and 2 percent, respectively. The United States is far advanced and leading in technological development, by concentrating on the efficient output of its capital goods. Only 30,000 of more than 3.5 million patents were held by citizens of developing countries. David Ricardo, an American economist, speaks on the same side as Lindsey when he states that all countries benefit from specialization and trade. Trade has potential benefits for all nations. Tariffs, export subsidies, and quotas simply interfere with the movement of goods and services around the world. This idea can be illustrated in the exemplary situation where the addition of a $1 tariff on imported textiles leads to the loss of efficiency. This $1 tariff has led to two components. First, consumers must pay a higher price for goods that could be produced at a lower cost. Second, marginal producers are drawn into textiles and away from other goods, resulting in inefficient domestic production. In the situation above, Ricardo shows that trade barriers only prevent a nation from taking advantage of the benefits of specialization (the idea of concentrating on a single or few tasks). Instead, the American economy is pushed to adopt relatively inefficient production techniques, and consumers are forced to pay higher prices for protected prices than they would otherwise pay. For example, trade barriers in twenty-one US industries saved 191,00 jobs at a cost to consumers of $170,00 per job. Along with Ricardo, the vast majority of American economists are also in favor of free trade. Among them is W. Allen Wallis, who stated in the Department of State Bulletin that the idea of protectionism only invites a spiral of retaliation. Protectionism raises the cost of living in the country introducing protection and even though a favored group can benefit from it, the vast majority of the population will not. Domestic consumers will be forced to pay higher prices. Wallis additionally states that protectionist measures are not really actions taken by one country vs. another country. Instead, they are actions that benefit one domestic group at the expense of other groups in the same country. For example, there is a conflict between the opinions of producers vs. consumers, and import-competing industries vs. export-competing industries. Wallis is correct in saying that controversies do exist over protectionism, but the controversies are merely enhanced in a free trade/laissez-faire economy. In this type of economy, the free market answers the basic economic questions (what to produce, how to produce, and who gets what is produced). Because the system of free enterprise has no government regulation and allows individual producers to decide its own actions, problems tend to arise with the absence of regulation. First, inefficiencies tend to exist. Producers do not always supply what people want at the lowest cost. Second, income may be unevenly distributed and leave out some groups. Third, periods of unemployment and inflation can arise. Wallis also argued on behalf of the free traders about the protectionist result of retaliation. He states that if the US limits a country’s exports of a given product to the US, then the country’s ability to buy from our country is reduced. They would then have a tendency to retaliate directly against some of the United States’ exports. This would result in the US industries losing their export market, thus causing unemployment. The consequences of this excess supply of labor are not on the positive side. Besides the already existing surplus, there will also be government purchase of that surplus, a higher price to consumers, and a higher price to sellers. Retaliation is a possible reaction to protectionism, but unemployment is not likely to occur. Even if the laborers will lose their jobs from the export-competing industries, the United States job sector will still have opportunities for those workers. The US has a higher rate of skilled workers than that of other countries. In short, the United States has a higher level of productivity than other countries in the international community. John M. Culbertson disagrees with the proponents of free trade when he says that the United States is alone in supporting free trade, while other countries are putting up barriers. According to Culbertson, the other countries’ goal is their respective national successes. The welcoming policy of the US simply allows the other countries to take advantage of the situation. Forty years ago, the United States dominated the world economic scene. Even though Japan constantly tried to reach its way to the top, the US was always a step or two ahead of them. Recently, though, in its quest for unregulated foreign trade, the US has left its market of success, allowing countries such as Japan to take over their foreign production markets. The US did not understand the foreign trade game, and lost. In a continuously competing global industry, the idea of pareto optimality proves to be true. It is not possible to make one country better off without making another country worse off. This idea should of been kept in mind when the US adopted NAFTA. NAFTA’s main aim was to enhance prosperity in all three countries through free trade policies, however, the goal proved to be impossible for everyone. With the devaluation of the Mexican peso, U.S. exports to Mexico drastically fell while Mexican exports to the U.S. soared, adding to the already large US trade deficit. NAFTA didn’t solve the problem of loss of jobs between the US and Mexico like it intended, but rather diverted it to Asian countries. Protectionism can also save US jobs. Foreign companies cost Americans their jobs, leading to unemployment. Some countries are also guilty of unfair trading practices. Attempts by the United States to monopolize are illegal under the Sherman and Clayton acts, but US industries continue to become victims of the effects of foreign monopolies. There is really nothing that the US industries can do about the monopoly situation. Since it has been made illegal, the US industries just have to find the best of the situation. Most US industries are perfectly competitive or monopolistically competitive. These industries have their apparent benefits, among which are the laxity of product differentiation and the easy entry and exit. Product differentiation provides a varying degrees of new and different products while insuring that quality is high. Eventually, the demand for these products will become more elastic, as producers have less control over its prices. The more elastic the demand, the less control that industries have over price. Another factor against free trade is the fact that cheap foreign labor makes competition unfair. Most products (such as foreign-made shoes) are produced in LDCs (Less Developed Countries) where workers are paid very low and foreign industries are able to make more profit due to the cheap labor. Most of this unfair competition is perpetuated by transnational corporations (TNCs). These corporations originate in developed countries and migrate to the Third World in search of policy flexibility that they can not find in a country such as the United States. TNCs seek cheap labor , low taxes, and few regulations. They do little for local development and they even drain the economy of the underdeveloped country, lowering their GDP. Most TNCs can be seen as leeches that reap all the benefits in a global community but contribute nothing back. A fact that people tend to forget is that wages in a competitive industry reflects productivity. Workers in the United States earn higher wages because they are more productive. US workers are better trained and each worker has more capital per worker. Other factors in favor of protectionism are the safeguarding of national security, the discouraging of dependency, the safeguarding of infant industry, and the provision for protection during temporary currency overvaluations. If protectionism policies were to be practiced, then free trade organizations such as the WTO would be obsolete. These organizations place a back seat to US interests and sovereignty and threaten to erode its consumer-protection and environmental regulations. Critic, Gus Tyler, agrees with protectionist measures in his book entitled Dissent. Tyler presents the idea that free trade is a myth. In the past, nations met in rounds after rounds to announce reductions of trade barriers. They then went home to make non-tariff barriers, and created subsidies to encourage exports. They negotiated VERs (Voluntary Export Restraints) or quotas, and they indulged in the most deceptive form of protectionism-the devaluation of currency. All in all, these measures taken by nations are practically identical to tariffs, which vastly reduces consumer surplus (the ability of the consumers to pay less, an obvious benefit to them). A good example is the Tokyo Round which lasted from 1973 to 1979 and took place during an oil crisis, a deep economic recession, and rising protectionism. Tokyo sought to make tariff cuts, regulate the usage of agricultural subsides, and come to a settlement of a policy to deal with Third World countries. But most critically, the Tokyo Round failed in curbing the practice of safeguarding which undermined all the progress and agreements made in Tokyo. The protectionist solution to the controversy of free trade vs. protectionism is somewhat hazy: mutually beneficial and balanced international trade. In this situation, there would be no violence to any nation’s valid claims, excluding transitional problems. Low-income nations would be helped by developing countries such as the United States, and the living standards in the high-income nations will still be safeguarded. No country, not even the United States, can be completely self sufficient, nor should it try to be. At one point in time, there will be a need in the US for a resource not available. The US should, however, not be so dependent on other countries. The US should learn to maximize its production by making it more efficient. The protectionist solution is more complex than how it is presented, though. The issue of free trade vs. protectionism is hard to solve, since there are so many factors to it. Simply stated, the whole issue is a game of theory. The terminology of a Prisoners’ Dilemma is applicable to the competition of global markets. In the Prisoners’ Dilemma, two prisoners are accused of a crime. Both prisoners are taken into their own questioning rooms. If both prisoners confess, they are given a light sentence. If one confesses and the other does not, the one who confesses is set free and the other receives a heavy sentence. If both prisoners do not confess, the sentence is at its heaviest. This situation parallels the risky business of global marketing. The respective nations act as the prisoners, always having to guess the actions of the other nations. Risks are always involved, but by weighing the costs and benefits of the actions, a dominant or maximum strategy can be made. The dominant strategy is the strategy that yields the best results regardless of the opponent’s strategy. The maximum strategy is the maximization of the minimum results. The propensity for the United States to lean towards free trade lies in the belief of a declining American hegemony. A hegemony is a dominant state that uses its economic power to impose and maintain customs and rules aimed at preserving the existing world order. Even though the US has declined from its superstar economic status, it still boats a GDP of $6.26 trillion dollars, which is larger than the GDPs of Japan and Germany combined, $6.12 trillion. The theory of hegemonic stability suggests that a dominant state is necessary to enforce international cooperation and maintain international law. This theory will be proved or disproved in the upcoming years since global politics is moving to even the scales of countries with such tools as free trade. The US economy is now at a trade deficit, and has been in that state for quite awhile. The best strategy to alleviate this problem would be protectionist measures. Although there will be those who oppose these measure, in the long run protectionism will be more beneficial to the economy of all American industries. Political liberty, the basic freedoms essential to the formation and expression of the popular will and its translation into policy, is not infringed by protectionist measures. The American population has historically disagreed on how much government involvement is enough. But a lassiez-faire attitude is not the solution to the problems the United States faces. A protectionist government is not a restrictive one, but rather a government that protects the interests of its people as a whole. If there comes a time when protectionist measures are not beneficial to the American people, then public policy can be changed by the majority’s will. The US must ask itself if free trade policies are in its best interests, or if they are just a popular growing trend in a new age of political correctness. It is true that the global market has already expanded, but it is never too late for the United States to begin shutting its doors to the free market.

    Bibliography

    BIBLOGRAPHY 1. Altschiller, D. (Ed.)(1998). Free Trade Versus Protectionism. New York: The H.W. Wilson Company. 2. Bender, D.L. & Leone, B. (1991). Trade-Opposing Viewpoints. San Diego: Greenhaven Press Inc. 3. Lenway, Stephanie Ann. (1985). The Politics of U.S. International Trade. Boston: Pitman Publishing Inc. 4. Lieberman, Sima. (1988). The Economic and Political Roots of the New Protectionism. New Jersey: Rowman & Littlefield, Publishers. 5. Spero, Joan Edelman. (Ed. 4) (1990). The Politics of International Economic Relations. New York: St. Martin’s Press, Inc. 6. Woronoff, Jon. (1983). World Trade War. New York: Praeger Publishers

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    is free trade beneficial for a country?
    it depends on the country.
    from what i do remember from yr 12 economics, free trade ensures efficiency for industry in the long term, but unfortunately has a nasty tendency for country A to be more and more reliant on another country B for a good/service which country B is better at giving.
    this is why it's tied in with globalisation,
    and also why there's so much criticism regarding free trade because 3rd world economies like the congo cant compete with an economic juggernaut like the US, and so grow more and more reliant on the US.
    will try to explain more later
    but i gotta dash
    hope this helps so far

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    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Yes and no. Free trade between equally developed countries is almost always benificial. However, trade between differently developed countries gives problems to both. The poorer country either becomes dependant on the more developed nation, or if investment in the poor country is high - the rich country starts sending more and more of its wealth away, actually hurting it in the long run.
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    The most beneficial part of Free Trade is the cooperation and good relations that come with it as a result.

    I am against "free trade" like NAFTA as its not really free trade but actual open free trade is a good thing.
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Ouch - my eyes smart, you should put some paragraphs in.

    The Prisoner's Dilemma is quoted backwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiljan Arslan View Post
    The terminology of a Prisoners’ Dilemma is applicable to the competition of global markets. In the Prisoners’ Dilemma, two prisoners are accused of a crime. Both prisoners are taken into their own questioning rooms. If both prisoners confess, they are given a light sentence. If one confesses and the other does not, the one who confesses is set free and the other receives a heavy sentence. If both prisoners do not confess, the sentence is at its heaviest.
    See wikipedia
    The prisoners get the light sentence if they stay silent, but if only one confesses, he is released and the other gets a heavy sentence, if both confess both get a medium sentence.
    This leads to the dilemma - it is best for both to stay silent rather than both confess, but they cannot trust each other so both are forced to confess to avoid the possibility of the heavy sentence for being betrayed.

    The article explains the advantages of free-trade quite well, but I didn't come away with a clear understanding of why protectionism is a good idea.

    Governments are always tempted by protectionism because it directly improves their standing with the aggrieved section of the population who see the government as having saved their jobs.

    The problem is that these jobs are effectively being subsidised which everyone else in the country is then paying for. This is because the protected market must have been being undercut, so protectionism is raising prices, also foreign retaliation will cut trade, and hence prosperity overall.

    Governments with trade surplusses will generally encourage free-trade (for example the British Empire in the 19th Century), those with deficits will be tempted by protectionism. It is important to understand that this is a political decision, not an economic one.

    Protectionism leads to stagnation, liberal trade laws in the UK have caused much political pain: first with the decline of manufacturing; and now with globalisation of white-coller jobs such as IT (my own industry - ouch). But the economy is still successful - labour moves away from uncompetative industries and into emerging industries.

    If you want to see the long-term effect of protectionism, look at the Soviet Union.
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    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    BTW what do you have to say to the charge that trade deficiets have a corelation with inflation?

    Hmm I can think of some good long term protectionism waht about the US?
    Last edited by Kiljan Arslan; November 17, 2007 at 01:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    How do you propose we deal with a situation in which one country has an absolute advantage in production of everything except high technology, and that refuses to purchase enough High technology to balance out the trade?
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Free trade is only good if the countries practicing it haven't any big disparities in their industrial economy. I'm for free trade, but only for free trade between "rich" with "rich" and "poor" with "poor", because competition between equals will increase their strenght, while competing with something that is largely better than you will get you badly beaten and ruined.
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Yes well it has definatly from my point of veiw not helped my country.
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    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    It has destroyed our industrial sector, but it has helped our information technology sector.

    The only problem is that more people have lost high paying industrial jobs and replaced them with low paying service jobs.
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidmen View Post
    The only problem is that more people have lost high paying industrial jobs and replaced them with low paying service jobs.
    What kind of industrial job have you heard of pays more than a service job? Generally--actually almost always--industrial jobs pay way less than service jobs. Even custodians get a lot more money than an industrial producer, and in an industrial setting the people who are getting the most are the managers and owners, the ones who generally don't make the products.

    I do want a larger percentage of the industrial production to stay in the United States, but it is a natural market fluxuation. the US is still the largest producer of goods and services in the world, the only thing is that we are also the largest consumer of both, and we consume far more than we produce, hence the deficit.

    The deficit itself, however, is not a particularly crippling phenomena, I believe Kiljan asked if a deficit leads to inflation. A deficit means that you're sending more money out than you're getting back, it doesn't mean that you're in debt, although that is what it sounds like. Mostly it means that this year we sent 8 trillion dollars out of the US than we got back, so the US economy would logically have 8 trillion less floating around. This is where it gets ironic, because that would mean that the dollar would be worth more than it was last year, so there'd be a negative inflation (or deflation) domestically, and since there are 8 trillion more floating around internationally then the USD would be worth less in foreign states. That's not the case, the USD is stable in the world while it is constantly losing value domestically, in example it wasn't too long since I had to pay $1.25 for a bottle of pop instead of $1.00, now it's up to $1.50. Gas is its own story, but soda and candy is something that the production is generally constant, so i imagine that inflation is more visable there. The general trend for inflation, according to a teacher I had four years ago, is a depreciation of about 50% every 10 years. In other words the dollar is worth half of what it was ten years ago.
    Generally deflations are actually more crippling than inflations since they show an economic productivity depression, so if there is a need for a deflation in the US economy than the government is probably throwing it's strong arm around to stabilize it.

    Now, as to the issue about a free vs protective economy (sorry if the previous point ended abruptly, my brain suddenly turned itself off and I lost my focus for a split second!) I support a free economy. Free economies regulate themselves, Smith used the analogy of an invisible hand. Sometimes this self-regulation doesn't happen fast enough, the 30s Great Depression would have resolved itself in time, but the public needed some guidence since the knowledge that it'll turn for the better in 10 years doesn't put bread on the table now, so there does have to be limited assistance, but protectionism only works in black and whites, there is no gray, while a free market economy is only gray area. Free markets have to work with full cooperation, though. A country should produce what they are best at, even if they are better at everything.

    For example country (and I warn you I will use letters) A can produce 18 of d, 20 of f, and country B can produce 12 of d, 10 of f. Country A is better than country B in all respects, but because it itself is better at producing f, then it has to produce that, while country B stinks at production, but should produce only d since it's slightly better at that. In time B's specialization can lead to to produce d really well. The problem arises when two countries specialize in the same thing, and that's when governments come together for economic treaties. Sometimes A and B both want to produce d for C, and C might prefer d from A. Then B does the only thing it can do, and produce f, perhaps getting better at it than A or C. if they don't they can start production of something else, like e, or just attack A or C ro try to stall or stop their own productive capabilities. War is generally the greatest enemy to economics, though. since now B needs to produce u for its war effort and can't produce d, e or f. The free market stabilizes itself, when you add intigue it gets wacky. That intrigue is the protective economy, like country A saying it will produce only d, and country C saying it will produce only f. Now B is stuck with e or u, and has to decide on what it's path will be, eventually deciding to form the EU and destroy A and C's abilities altogether. Now the 860 million people who live in A and C must decide what they do, and decide to outsource to L, who has no economy but plenty of untrained exploitable children. Before you know it you have a slave economy and 25 million people starve to death every year. Such is what Belgium did to the Congo, and how the protective tariffs of Britain did it all.


    So, anyway, "rich" with "rich" and "poor" with "poor" are all good and well, but it leads to slow indistrialization in the poorer countries. Rapid industrialization leads to an overall poverty stricken populace, but to keep them segmented is to keep them perpetually locked in economic subversion. Protective strategies should be used to jumpstart an economy, for use in temporary settings, but after B can produce d really well it should be allowed to freely.

    Besides, compitition is good for the soul.
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  12. #12
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lector V View Post
    What kind of industrial job have you heard of pays more than a service job? Generally--actually almost always--industrial jobs pay way less than service jobs.
    that was not the case of the US.
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    Bokks's Avatar Thinking outside Myself
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Roman View Post
    that was not the case of the US.
    Which industry? My grandfather worked at Thatcher's glass in upstate New York; he wasn't paid nearly as much as service jobs. Back then custodial crews got less money, but nowadays even they are one of the highest paid positions available (mostly because no-one would put up with that for anything less... understandably)
    No, I've never heard of a production job paying more than a service job--other than janitors like I just said--except maybe teachers. But even teachers are paid more than any industrial job I can think of. The only production job that would pay a lot is airplanes, and we still have that domestically.

    No, generally speaking when you move from a product economy to a services economy the income goes up, the cost of living down, and overall tranquility is accessible and commonplace for most. The cost of living is definately going up, but I wonder what the case would have been if we were still industrial in a post-industrial/digital era...:hmmm:
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  14. #14
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lector V View Post

    No, generally speaking when you move from a product economy to a services economy the income goes up, the cost of living down, and overall tranquility is accessible and commonplace for most. The cost of living is definately going up, but I wonder what the case would have been if we were still industrial in a post-industrial/digital era...:hmmm:

    then I must ask, when in the 50s and 60s (when America still produced high quality products, unlike now) was there a booming middle class, and now we are starting to see a shrink in that area when most of our manufacturing jobs are being moved outside the country?

    Of course, I don't have any numbers in front of me, so I guess I could be mistaken, but that seems to be pretty close to the truth.

    edit: though I suppose, with manufacturing jobs in this day and age, if it wasn't people from third world countries, it'd be machines. So I guess either way, the manufacturing sector would see a drop.
    Last edited by Last Roman; November 19, 2007 at 04:32 PM.
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    It has destroyed our industrial sector, but it has helped our information technology sector.
    It wouldn't have destroyed our industrial sector if it wasn't for these trade pacts we sign with other nations. That is not free trade.

    If we keep things on an even level then we shouldn't have this problem.
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  16. #16
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Well I'm for getting rid of those trade pacts there total BS.
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  17. #17
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    to a certain degree, yes. Overly centralized economies (like that of the USSR) tend not to work. But a totally free market leaves wealth in the hands of a few, making the country an economic oligarchy.

    So, I'm for a mixed economy, leaning towards a free market.
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  18. #18
    Darsh's Avatar Maréchal de l'Empire
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    I think the protectionism and the free trade are complementary free trade is extremely profitable when you have a strong economy and the protectionism help the country against an unfair concurrence.

    The both are useful it depends only the situation but the both shouldn't be used in the extrem.

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  19. #19
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    Of course not, when it's between a rich country and a poor one like say, Mexico.

    Set them tariffs up, boys.

  20. #20
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Is free trade beneficial for a country?

    that was not the case of the US.
    It varies from industry to industry but the value of working at an industrial job is lower then the service because the service takes human capital investment where as working in a car factory doesn't. And because it doesn't the labor force given industrial jobs is alot larger and more competitive. And one of the underlining causes in the creation of unions. And given the less labor competition the hire the salaries and the more people that work in the service sector. I know that sounds confusing but that is why.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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