Who's Got The Best Militia?

[Kahn]

I would argue that Milan takes the cake with their Genoese Crossbows. Hard hitters, good defense, and as a last resort they can can even hold their own for a wee bit during hand-to-hand. Add to that the Milanese Spear Militia who make a decent wall against calvary and you've got a formidable opponent. All this with zero upkeep!

Chime in, you dogs !

[~Beren~]

The Italian factions are the ones with the best militia units.

But I agree with you there about the Genoese Crossbow militiamen.

[boerekovic]

I hate militias, Professional Standing armies ftw.

[Faris ad Din]

I hate militias, Professional Standing armies ftw.

Unless you're strictly speaking top-florin units drawn from nobility, there often isn't much difference between castle and city units save that the city versions can be upkeep-free. Let's thank CA for units with identical stats but different skins/names.

I'd suggest the Moors' Urban Militia as a viable mainline sword infantry. It has good armor, upgradable to heavy mail, and a big shield, and very handy in either defense against enemy infantry or offense. It is identical in stats to its direct competitor, the Spanish/Portuguese Swordsmen Militia. Difficulty of recruitment aside; since sword militia units (or plain any sword units) are a bit more rare, I personaly like both of these units best of all the militia, with more preference for the Urban Militia.

Then there is the Middle Eastern Halberd Militia of Egypt and the Turks, not to be confused with the regular low-armor/morale European Halberd Militia. Granted it is not actually used to absorb any direct attacks, it does really well in an offensive role against armored units (I'll need other people's word on this one).

Of course the Urban Militia, Swordsmen Militia and the ME Halberd Militia all come from the Militia Drill Square of large cities only. The famed Saracen Militia (and the Genoese Crossbow Militia of Milan, and the Pavise Crossbow Militia of Venice, the Papal States, Sicily and Hungary) are available from the City Watch of minor cities. And then of course the Italian Spear Militia comes from the Town Guard of large towns. For this consideration alone (comes from any large town, free upkeep in any large town!) I would hand the medal to the Italian Spear Militia.

That said, I don't consider just any unit that comes from cities to be a "militia" unit. Not only would we have Varangian Guard, but also Janissary Heavy Infantry (owned every other unit until shield bug was fixed), French Gendarmes/Aventuriers, Forlorn Hope of HRE, Famiglia Ducale of Milan, Berdiche Axemen of Russia, Mamluk Archers and Tabardariyya for Egypt, and so on. If it doesn't have the word "Militia" tagging its name and it isn't eligible for free upkeep as a true militia unit, it can't really be considered one...

[~Beren~]

Yeah.

I just rename the units. =/

[nosjo78]

I would argue that Milan takes the cake with their Genoese Crossbows. Hard hitters, good defense, and as a last resort they can can even hold their own for a wee bit during hand-to-hand. Add to that the Milanese Spear Militia who make a decent wall against calvary and you've got a formidable opponent. All this with zero upkeep!

Chime in, you dogs !

I believe if you play Papal States the Papal Guard are considered militia. They can hold their grounds against just about anything. With High moral and stamina they kick butt.

[Mithrantir]

There is also Byzantium with the Varangian Guard that can hold their own. True the rest of the militia they have is not that good.

[The Good]

All of the Italian Kingdoms have the best militamen. The Islamic Kingdoms have some good militia too though. The Saracen Militia come in mind.

There is also Byzantium with the Varangian Guard that can hold their own. True the rest of the militia they have is not that good.

At least Byzantium has the decent Archer Militia unit, which is better than the Western European Peasant Archers.

[Routed Peasant]

I think militia should be on the board only for a few turns before going back to their farms, but i dont think the game mechanics allow for this. Alternativly only be activated when the settlement is under attack.

In Norway, during the time represented in the game the King could call for the men in the Kingdom to take up arms against an enemy to fight for the King and Country. This was used during King Haakon Haakonson in his campaign against the scots.

However, the law said the leidang(militia army) could only be on service for a certain period, the King did not have the power to make this his permanent army!

[Titanus]

Best Militia - Italy

During history most of the Italian states used militia and mercenaries for the bulk of their armies.

[Ahiga]

Novgrod and the Kievan did so too. It seems while the Druzhina and Boyars (At least Pre Mongol) were the sole part of the Professional Army, the Polk or City Militia were critical in any siegeworks.

I actually used Spear Militia a lot as France. They took dreadful casulaties, but they were easily replenished in france, and served quite well.

[Evolution]

Milan/Genoa/Papal states/Scilliy

the Rich Cheap old nasty factions.... (did that makes sense?)

Milan has killer crossbowmen and great militia, Venice has great militia and great armor, Papal states has the strongest Milita (in my opinion) and Scilliy have weak but high attack militia.

[SwiftBlade]

Varang's are not militia.

The best militia is Urban Militia of the moors

[Sher Khan]

The Italians able to field pavise crossbow militiamen, italian spear militia, and pike militia are able to form a very cheap but very deadly army from a city. The pikes and spears are very competent in holding off infantry and cavalry while the crossbows simply pick off the enemy. The Italian cavalry militia also make for very cheap knights, able to charge home for a powerful assault, but unable to hold their own in prolonged melee.


The Iberian factions that can field sword-wielding militiamen along with crossbows also make for a grand militia force, although not as effective in defense as the Italian spears.


The English and French can supplement their cities with bill/voulge militia, allowing for decent heavy-infantry when the simple spear militia/archer militia combination just won't do (and the French can also recruit crossbow militia I believe). The French in this case have a very versatile militia force though from a small militia roster. Voulge militia can form spearwalls along with performing heavy infantry duties, and their crossbow militia can clean up the rest.


Finally, the Egyptians and Turks can also field powerful militia armies thanks to their all-powerful Saracen militia and Middle Eastern Halberd Militia. Though unable to form spearwalls, these halberd militiamen are well armored much like voulge and bill militias, making them quite useful as heavy infantry counters. Saracen militia simply do well under most any circumstances.

[~Beren~]

Can the Papal Guard and/or the Swiss Guard be counted as militiamen?

[Thanatos]

Can the Papal Guard and/or the Swiss Guard be counted as militiamen?

Yes.

WHY ARE THEY SO HARD TO KILL?! WHY WHY WHY?!

ALL I EVER DO IS RUN THEM OVER WITH ELEPHANTS, AND THEY KEEP COMING BACK UP!

*facedesk*

[Faris ad Din]

Unfortunately, I don't think either the Papal Guard or the Swiss Pikemen can be counted as militia. I checked the export_descr_unit.txt and they don't have what I would consider the key attribute for a militia unit, free_upkeep_unit. Basically it would have to have the word "Militia" in the name for it to be true militia, which really narrows the scope here.

I'm now actively testing several of the top-rated militia units against each other in single combat and against archers/knights to see how they shape up against ranged attacks and charges. So far, I've tested the Moors' Urban Militia against Turkish (or Egyptian, no matter) Saracen Militia and the Urbans wiped the floor with the Saracens.

Urbans started with 90+1 captain, Saracens started with 112+1 captain.
Urbans: Attack 11 (sword), Armor 5, Defense 7, Shield 6, Charge 2, Cost: 400, Upkeep: 125, no special attributes.
Saracens: Attack 7 (spear), Armor 5, Defense 3, Shield 6, Charge 2, Cost: 490, Upkeep: 155, no special attributes.

I charged the Saracens with the Urbans at a reasonable distance (and AI always charges on attack) so both units were able to build up full speed and get unit cohesion (like a herd of buffalo). The Urbans took 0 casualties in the charge and it looks like the Saracens took 7. Both sides put up a good long fight, but the Saracens were simply no match for the Urbans even though they had greater numbers. The Saracens took 85 killed and the Urbans just 12 by the time the Saracens broke and fled, leaving 28 and 79 respectively. The Urbans snatched another 16 captured before the rest of the Saracens were too far out of range. Both units apparently have the same running speed (same unit model, same size shield for crying out loud! I was able to mod in a sword unit for Egypt using Urban mesh and Egyptian Saracen skin!) so the Urbans were unable to gain any distance on them before they fled the battlefield.

I'll post more results later. For now I'm very impressed with the Moorish Urban Militia in anti-infantry roles, and will see about the Spanish/Portuguese Swordsmen Militia after that... they have the same stats, but will they perform any differently?

[Faris ad Din]

Here's more tests/reviews on the Urban Militia. Granted, I ran these only once each. All were done on the Grassy Plains map, to eliminate any factor of desert/snow/woods, other terrain obstructions and elevation.

First, here's Moorish Urban Militia against their rivals, the Spanish (and also Portuguese) Swordsmen Militia.

Urbans: 90(+1) men, Attack 11 (sword), Armor 5, Defense 7, Shield 6, Charge 2, Cost: 400, Upkeep: 125, no special attributes.
Swordsmen Militia: 90(+1) men, Attack 11 (sword), Armor 5, Defense 7, Shield 6, Charge 2, Cost: 400, Upkeep: 100, Combat bonus in woods or snow.

This was a closely contested battle all the way through. Both units got a chance to build up full charging speed, shields naturally colliding first. It's impossible to perfectly track casualty rates as the unit number counter usually takes two to three seconds to update after casualties are actually taken, but the first readings were 4 killed for the Urbans and 2 for the Swordsmen. Then the battle settled into a very protracted duke-out, and both sides were very evenly matched, with the odds shifting only slightly in favor of one side or another. The first discernable turning point happened when the Urbans reached 50 left and the Swordsmen reached 40 left, and after that it was simply a battle of which side had more men. The Urbans had 34 left when the Swordsmen broke with 18 left, their captain already killed. The Urbans snatched an initial 6 runners as they were turning on the spot to flee, and they managed to outrun them ever so slightly to capture just 1 more all the way to the edge of the map.
Final tally, 73 kills, 7 captured for the Urbans and 57 kills for the Swordsmen, but due to the nature of the battle, results are still inconclusive. I'd say the two are quite nearly balanced.

Now I'm testing Urban Militia versus Middle Eastern Halberd Militia.
Urbans: 90(+1) men, Attack 11 (sword), Armor 5, Defense 7, Shield 6, Charge 2, Cost: 400, Upkeep: 125, no special attributes.
Halberds: 90(+1) men, Attack 7 (halberd or classed as "axe"), Armor 5, Defense 3, Shield 0, Charge 3, Cost: 510, Upkeep: 150, Effective against armor.

Again, both sides got to full charging speed. First readable losses were 5 for the Urbans and 16 for the Halberds. The fight was not quite so protracted. The Halberds kill relatively quickly, but their survivability is not really notable. The Urbans had 37 left when the Halberds broke with 20 left. The Urbans ran noticeably faster than the unwieldy halberd-wielding militia and captured a few to the edge of the map. End tally was 73 kills and 9 captured with 37 remaining for the Urban and 55 killed with 9 remaining for the Halberds.

Results are pretty conclusive at least in 1v1 for the Urbans as an anti-infantry unit. Saracens for one do survive well in melee, but just can't kill (other infantry) fast enough and suffer for it. Halberds are good killers in melee, but their lack of a shield or a weapon light enough to use for effective parrying leaves them vulnerable to charges and during melee. Urban/Swordsmen Militia seem to strike a very nice balance of both the survivability and kill rate factors.

Here's a last test of Urban Militia against Milan's Genoese Crossbow Militia.

When the player takes control of Urban Militia against AI-controlled Genoese Crossbows, it is impossible to conclude the battle as the Genoese Crossbows run faster than Urbans (or Swordsmen, Saracens and Halberds for that matter) and can sort of skirmish. They manage to run to a far enough distance to stoop to reload and just begin to let loose a volley, but they never manage to actually fire as Urbans running at full speed (fresh or tired/exhausted) catch up to them in time to make them run. You'll see a few of the crossbows trying to fire and hear the firing sound effect but no arrows are fired, and this nonsense repeats every 1-2 minutes to the end of the battle. I've tried adding "start_not_skirmishing" to the export_descr_unit.txt but it doesn't change the AI's behavior.

So, I'm reversing the reins, and taking command of the Genoese Crossbow Militia and making a fight or die stand against Urban Militia. Any ranged kills the Crossbows will make will only be made before the Urbans reach their line, or if the Urbans break first and the Crossbows pick off the routers. There is no running in this test.

Urbans: 90(+1) men, Attack 11 (sword), Armor 5, Defense 7, Shield 6, Charge 2, Cost: 400, Upkeep: 125, no special attributes.
Genoese Crossbows: 90(+1) men, Attack 6 (sword) 12 (crossbow), Armor 6, Defense 3, Shield 6, Charge 1, Cost: 570, Upkeep: 100, Effective against armor, Combat bonus in woods, Long range missiles, Good Stamina

Notes on morale: Urbans are "5, normal, trained" and Genoese are "3, normal, trained". Taken from EDU notes: "The base morale level, followed by discipline and training discipline may be normal, low, disciplined or impetuous. Impetuous units may charge without orders / training determines how tidy the unit's formation is. Discipline the response to morale SHOCKS"

The Urbans start out at a slow march. Note that crossbows always need to be reloaded before they are fired, unlike gunpowder weapons which get a free volley from the start of a battle. The Genoese are set to fire at will, and the first volley kills 11 (leaving 80). The Urbans predictably begin to run to reduce their losses from missile fire. The second volley kills 8 (leaving 72). The Genoese manage to squeeze in part of a third volley right in the faces of the charging Urbans, killing another 8 (leaving 64). The first recordable casualties for the Genoese is 7 (leaving 84) after the charge; some were still in their reloading animation with their backs to the charging Urbans.

What ensues is a very long, bloody and protracted melee battle. The Urbans start at a numerical disadvantage of 64 against the Genoese's 84. The Genoese are quite tough in melee, wielding only a sword for both attacking and parrying, but the Urbans are ultimately superior in hand-to-hand, and have a shield. The numbers close down until the Genoese's numbers fall past that of the Urbans when each side has 41. Both sides showed signs of wavering as they were taking such heavy casualties, but since the battle was so close and swinging in either side's favor repeatedly (and both captains survived) they kept on fighting down to 14 vs 14 at which the turning point tilts in favor of the Urbans. It drew down to 12 vs 3, 10 vs 3 and finally 10 vs 2 (1 being the Milanese captain) when the Genoese finally routed.

This was a very close battle. The Genoese Crossbow Militia really are a versatile unit, with good missile range and able to stand up in melee, at least until they receive melee backup. For pure melee however, it looks like Urban/Swordsmen Militia are looking great.

I have yet to test Urbans against Italian Spear Militia (though I think the Urbans would clearly win against spears). Then I also have to test both Urbans and Swordsmen against non-piercing missile fire to see if the Swordsmen might be more vulnerable... they do have smaller round shields as opposed to the Urbans' large kite body shield.

[Mr Longbowman]

Very nice post Faris ad Din + rep

[Sher Khan]

Urbans are clearly the best linemen militia one can find.

Saracens and Halberds however are very effective for their specific roles, that of anti-cavalry and anti-armor. A point that's incredibly important for any Egyptian/Turkish player facing off against European armored fighters. Saracens make short work of most cavalry, even after a massive charge, and Halberds carve through an armored enemy's flank like knife through butter.