Christian right frames "war against Islamofascism" as "values issue"

[Ahiga]

November 10, 2007

Evangelicals' Issue: Radical Islam
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 12:35 p.m. ET

Following last month's Values Voter Summit in Washington, conservative Christian power-broker Gary Bauer sent an e-mail to supporters.

He ticked off the issues dear to activists in attendance. Opposition to ''abortion-on-demand'' and preservation of traditional marriage led the way.

Then the one-time presidential hopeful turned his attention to a different threat, one social conservative leaders hope will shake their constituents from their apathy about the 2008 presidential race.

''The war against Islamofascism is in many respects a 'values issue,''' Bauer wrote. ''That may seem like an odd statement at first glance, but, as I have often said, losing Western Civilization to this vicious enemy would be immoral.''

From one perspective, branding ''radical Islam'' as a family values issue is yet another example of the broadening of the evangelical agenda. But next November, it also could energize one of the Republican Party's key voting blocs, much like anti-gay marriage measures did in 2004.

''It's the ultimate life issue,'' said Rick Scarborough, president of the Texas-based conservative Christian group Vision America. ''If radical Islam succeeds in its ultimate goals, Christianity ceases to exist.''

That might sound alarmist, but Scarborough's words illustrate how many conservative Christian leaders view matters of national security as a battle between good and evil -- nothing short of a clash of civilizations.

Article Continued at link: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/A...cal-Islam.html


So, it's the Franks vs the Saracens again. Can I join the Orthodox Russians, sit back and drink until the Mongolians come?

And whose going to get the unlucky spot of Byzantium? The Greeks? Russians? Brazilians?

[Kanaric]

lol.

I don't get these "values" issues, i don't understand how any of them are values. They used to never be called "values" the value used to be that America was to remain a very successful nation on the pinnacle of the 1st world where, if it didn't happen already, won't remain for long.

Our values should be to make sure our country isn't going into a ********, which massive debt which results in an declining dollar and our being owned by foreign nations such as China.

[Joker85]

I would think believing we should fight the mentality that caused 9/11 is indeed a value that we should all strive for.

In the words of Ron Paul; Why do you hate freedom?

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Nah, with Fundies getting more and more dangerous, religious obscurity and obsession for traditionalism will not only take America to an inferior mental state but will bankrupt the US with overtly ambitious military ventures. Situation is already delicate enough to ask for immediate care and caution, now imagine if America turns into the spear head of a new hate Crusade against Islam and Moslems, especially those living in the West?

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

The Christian right is insane, why meddle with the values of the mid east!? It's none of their god damn business! Tards.

[Siblesz]

Christian values? The war on terror?

Whatever happened to turn the other cheek. I guess looney Christians like the Old Testament better.

[Big War Bird]

Whatever happened to turn the other cheek. I guess looney Christians like the Old Testament better.

'Turning the other cheek' in the Bible doesn't exactly mean what you think it does. It's a somewhat insulting and provacative thing to do.

[Siblesz]

'Turning the other cheek' in the Bible doesn't exactly mean what you think it does. It's a somewhat insulting and provacative thing to do.

Really? That's the strangest take on that I've heard. But be wary... you're getting just as good as the enemy at misinterpreting holy books.

[jankren]

Without Islam, Christianity in the West would probably eventually disappear by itself anyway.

[Chaigidel]

kinda like saying--- is that all you got you sissy *****? ( the turn the other cheek thing) or am I wrong about that big?

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

If you think about it, right-wing Christians and extremist Muslims have more in common than any other two groups:

- They both think "god hates faggots".
- They are both against same-sex marriage.
- They don't mind seeing blood and flying limbs when there is a religious reason involved.
- They're regular worshipers.
- They 'enjoy' celibacy until marriage.
- They are intolerant of the views of others.
- To the semi-intelligent human and above, both groups look retarded.


Plus, I totally agree with Voltaire le Philosophe.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

If you think about it, right-wing Christians and extremist Muslims have more in common than any other two groups:

- They both think "god hates faggots".
- They are both against same-sex marriage.
- They don't mind seeing blood and flying limbs when there is a religious reason involved.
- They're regular worshipers.
- They 'enjoy' celibacy until marriage.
- They are intolerant of the views of others.
- To the semi-intelligent human and above, both groups look retarded.


Plus, I totally agree with Voltaire le Philosophe.

Exactly. We're not denying Extremists are bad. The problem is that there are Extremists on both sides, and as Thomas Paine once said cleverly, the destroyers of the Republic won't be external enemies, but those that silently follow her... until a certain day when their power gets overwhelming. Sadly, that's not an unrealistic scenario for the US today.

Edit- Sorry, corrected spelling.

[Calvin]

Sigh...what is it with politics and christians over in the USA? I am an evangelical christian in the UK, and the very idea of somehow trying to force my belief through Parliament and whatnot horrifies me. Politics = secular, how can one possibly expect a government that rules over many different cultures and beliefs to cater specifically and only to yours?

Take that abortion issue for example. Now, I don't agree with abortion, but I am not going to force my will over someone with it. I'm not going to lobby parliament about having it banned, or picket an abortion clinic - that is incredibly thoughtless and can only add distress to an already not nice situation. However, I will discuss my beliefs about it with people if asked, I'm not ashamed of the fact I'm against it. But I won't condemn the people that disagree with me, and I support as best I can those who choose to have an abortion. It isn't up to me to make their decision.

And also, that's the first time I heard that interpretation of turn the other cheek. Interesting; can't say I agree with it, but interesting

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

Sigh...what is it with politics and christians over in the USA? I am an evangelical christian in the UK, and the very idea of somehow trying to force my belief through Parliament and whatnot horrifies me. Politics = secular, how can one possibly expect a government that rules over many different cultures and beliefs to cater specifically and only to yours?

Take that abortion issue for example. Now, I don't agree with abortion, but I am not going to force my will over someone with it. I'm not going to lobby parliament about having it banned, or picket an abortion clinic - that is incredibly thoughtless and can only add distress to an already not nice situation. However, I will discuss my beliefs about it with people if asked, I'm not ashamed of the fact I'm against it. But I won't condemn the people that disagree with me, and I support as best I can those who choose to have an abortion. It isn't up to me to make their decision.

And also, that's the first time I heard that interpretation of turn the other cheek. Interesting; can't say I agree with it, but interesting

You sir are perhaps the first Evangelical I can respect, although i may not agree with you I respect your devotion and faith.

Anyway on back on topic,

I am quite happy for Fundamentalists to kill each other till they are both bloody pulps on the side of the road, however fundamentalists seem to be obsessed with getting everyone on there side, there absolutist view of the world is one that will only lead to the deaths of many if they get in to power, and religion has no place in governing states, the opinions of imaginary beings should have no bearing on peoples lives and deaths.

[Icefrisco]

Its sort of ridiculous that when Oklahoma City was bombed no one wanted a war on Christian terrorism. However, when Muslims attack we suddently need to declare war on them. I dont think Americans dislike Muslims they just dont want to find flaws in people of their own religion.

[jankren]

Its sort of ridiculous that when Oklahoma City was bombed no one wanted a war on Christian terrorism. However, when Muslims attack we suddently need to declare war on them. I dont think Americans dislike Muslims they just dont want to find flaws in people of their own religion.

When Islamist terrorists killed innocent Muslims in Muslim countries we dont declare war on Islam either. It is the same logic my friend. Hostility can only be declared against the 'others'.

[Joker85]

Its sort of ridiculous that when Oklahoma City was bombed no one wanted a war on Christian terrorism. However, when Muslims attack we suddently need to declare war on them. I dont think Americans dislike Muslims they just dont want to find flaws in people of their own religion.

Mcveigh bombed the Mura building in the name of Christianity? Did I miss something?

You know there is a difference between someone doing something in spite of being a christian, and because of it?

Islamic terrorism occurs because of, and in the name of Islam. That is not to say all Muslims are terrorists, or responsible, but the fact is the people doing it are doing it because of and in the name of their God.

Calling Oklahoma "christian terrorism" is a desperate attempt to play the equivocate game. As is implying that that the christian right is the same as the islamic right. And it completely ignores the motivations that lead to the attack. Which had absolutely nothing to do with religion. It is a completely uninformed statement to label it "christian terrorism".

But I'll tell you what. Let's take the past 25 years and compare the number of attacks and fatalities commited by people acting in the name of christianity and those acting in the name of islam. I'd be glad to do so.

It's funny because it seems that whenever people want to equivocate, they always bring up abortion clinic bombings, or oklahoma. It never fails. Why? Because the incidents are so isolated that it is all they have, so they have to keep going back even though we are getting on a decade+ removed.

Want to see the latest islamic terror act on the other hand? Open a newspaper. Or last weeks. Or the week before that. Or the month before that.

[Kiljan Arslan]

The "Christian" Right can go **** themselves bunch of hypocryts. There responsible for all those damned Mega churches which are less churches than malls whaterver the **** happaned to "this is a temple not a marketplace?"

[Sidmen]

And whose going to get the unlucky spot of Byzantium? The Greeks? Russians? Brazilians?

Lets see, who is the most advanced, rich, and militarily adaptive country in the world (which Byzantine was)? Wait a minute... Who is calling for other Europeans to help out in the ME wars? .... Its the USA, heck, we even have a similar military when compared to the Byzantine concepts (each state supplies its troops for use in the larger military.

[Dunecat]

I don't understand how terrorism in the Middle East all falls under the "Islamic Terrorism" moniker.

Yes. Because obviously something as complicated and delicate as islam political infighting can be generalized under one term: Radical Islamic Terrorism.

It's just that simple.