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Thread: A few thoughts and questions,

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  1. #1

    Default A few thoughts and questions,

    Hello

    I am what you might call a forum- lurker. This means that I am one of those people who often visit forums to read, but rarely to write. I used to have an account here on TWC, but I can’t use it anymore. Perhaps it was deleted due to inactivity.

    First off, devoted fans of the mod and honored BCteam please don’t bash this post in the usual SS-style. Only kidding : )

    I have been watching this mod with great anticipation since early spring. When I first looked in to this forum there were already pictures in display of many of the new factions. It looked almost finished. Then a friend told me that it would be released in the end of august. The modders would spend their entire vacation to get it done. Fantastic I thought. I had tremendous respect for these fabulous people who gave so much, and made what seemed be such a tremendous mod. Then news was received, that the mod would be postponed. No problem I thought. The more polished- the better. It will probably be released in the end of September.

    Then it didn’t come in September, not in October, and probably not in November, perhaps not in December. Had this been a game in development, the act of not setting any temporary release date so late in the process would boost considerable critique. Being so silent about where the project stands, how much you intend to do before release, and how fast you intend to do it, is possibly quite annoying in the long run. At least I can’t help to get annoyed. You also risk that many people will lose interest.

    On the other side, it is very hard for us to criticize you. You are doing this free of charge and at expense of your own leisure, and we love your for it. It is still my opinion that you would benefit from listening to some of the complaints. If you intend to reach perfection, you can’t be too arrogant. It is my hope that this post won’t be answered with the typical: “it will be released when it’s ready! Thread closed.”

    When a lot of people start asking questions, maybe it would be a sound idea to take them in to consideration? Firstly, why has the mod been postponed for so long? Has this been properly answered? Were there new ideas that you wanted to incorporate before release? Was something not working? Was it not as good as the hype anticipated? Or were you simply not able to finish what had to be done? Any answer would do.

    Why are all questions of any kind forced in the Q and A thread? It makes it very hard to get a picture of what is being discussed in the forum, and leaves little room to discuss individual questions in depth. It also makes the forum a lot less interesting and uneventful. At least this is my opinion.

    Would it not be better to release the mod before incorporating all kinds of new features? This way you can keep interest at high, and receive valuable feedback that you can work on for future versions in your way to perfection.

    Any release date is better then none. It gives us some idea of how much is left to do. The progress thread leaves us in the dark. Making and incorporating music and beta testing could take anywhere between 1 and 7 months for all I know. We all understand that release dates aren’t exact, and if they can’t be reached we fully respect that. But it puts things in perspective and keeps us interested.

    Please don’t take this as an insult. This still the only mod for Me2 that I really look forward too. I very much admire your work, and wish you all the best in your progress. But we should be able to discuss this.
    Last edited by ManuelKomnenos; November 16, 2007 at 09:14 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    The trouble with working as a team is that by the time everyone's current work has been combined into a "build", the individual has moved on and has started working on another chunk of work that they wish to include in version 1.0.

    I am personally to 'blame' for the major delay in the mod. I made the point with Mirage to wait until the new ERE was completed. Knowing that we had a window of time left, I decided to make two new factions (Oman and Sindh).

    Currently we are fighting a "crash to desktop" bug that is proving itself to be a complete show stopper. There's no way we can release this mod until that bug is fixed.

    Other than this bug the tasks remaining are really very minor. They include tasks such as adding extra mercs, finishing text (there are literally hundreds of pages of text in a mod the size of BC), compiling music, balancing recruitment/replenishment rates, and fixing artistic elements such as interfaces (strat map and main menu).

    It's impossible to say when we will release BC. We could finish all of our tasks in a week but still be left with this show stopping CTD bug. How could we justify releasing a mod we've spent 8 months working on, when we know you can only get 10 - 30 turns into the campaign before it crashes? The simple answer is that we won't. We no longer have any contact in CA so if someone can open a channel between us and one of the M2TW programming team, it would be a great help.

    It's hard to describe just how much work is in a mod like BC. There will ALWAYS be something left to do, but a point will come where both Mirage and I are happy that any remaining task is minor and not detrimental to the experience of playing the game. It's at that point you'll see the download link to version 1.0.

    Cheers
    Last edited by AlphaDelta; November 16, 2007 at 05:46 AM.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    Very nice post

    I'm not going to reply as I am still scared of Mirage and AD.

    But I'll be watching this thread closely.

    p.s Many thanks for the info AD.
    Last edited by whhyy; November 16, 2007 at 06:39 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    With that in mind, is there anything else you need us to do in terms of writing?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    Wow that was like a page of a post god damn you are good.

  6. #6

    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    How close are you guys to a workable beta?
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  7. #7

    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    Yes, AD many thanks for your great answer It explains a lot. I fully understand how much work that has to be done on a mod this size. Nice to hear that it is not long. About the QA thread. Is it possible to liberalise the policy on sending all questions to the Q and A thread, in order to make the forum more dynamic and exciting?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelKomnenos View Post
    Is it possible to liberalise the policy on sending all questions to the Q and A thread, in order to make the forum more dynamic and exciting?
    DON'T BE SO HASTY SADIQ! THREAD CLOSED

    Hahha, Just kidding.

    You're right, I have been a bit strict on these thread. But please understand I just didn't want the forums to be flooded with 12 "When make releasing???" threads and 7 "Is BC compatible with 1.2" threads. The Q&A is for those smaller one point questions.

    But, I will indeed be much more liberal - due to some complaints - with what threads you make. As long as its not disruptive, or is well thought-out (like this thread) then its fine.


    As far as the Qs go, AlphaDelta summed it up the best. We're doing our best, but in a mod project as huge as BC there is innumerable tasks that pop up once you think you're in the clear. Not to forget that CTD that's been plaguing us and another mod.

    Also a huge reason for the recent lag is because I have school, Strelac has work and AD has work too. If I didn't have school right now, almost 100% of my tasks would be done and most likely you'd be playing BC right now. But time constraints are a major reason for slow-down. I can only work on the mod essentially in spare 1/2 hours after school, or on fridays and saturdays. Aside from that I'm not touching the mod at all. Same goes for strelac and AD.
    Last edited by Miraj; November 16, 2007 at 12:47 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    I agree that for sake of discussion, the team could open the mod progress for Qs, however, in the same time, I fear that only question coming from that discussion would be “is it done?” instead of questions related to individual segments of mod developments, which is natural, but in the same time can be annoying to those who work on the mod.

  10. #10
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    The simple answer is that we won't. We no longer have any contact in CA so if someone can open a channel between us and one of the M2TW programming team, it would be a great help.
    UnspokenKnight is aka Scott Lowther, CA Oz programmer.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusted View Post
    UnspokenKnight is aka Scott Lowther, CA Oz programmer.
    Than announce retrofit as a patch so MP isnt splitted!!!

  12. #12
    Basileos's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    I watch the forums like MK very often, and i also don't reply much.So i write this because i'm really looking forward to this mod.
    First off all i want to say this: this mod will be the best mod M2TW will maybe ever know,and many people would agree with me.
    But ManuelKomnenos is right.The mod takes maybe a bit too long and people can get anoyed.So giving an idea when the mod would be released could answer many questions.
    But i'm also glad that you guy's gave a really good reply.And i totally understand it that the mod has to be perfect when it releases.Also the Byzantine empire (my favorite faction)is a complete disaster in the vanilla and to be honest,i even don't like greek firethrowers or some new units from kingdoms,so a complet new ERE with totally different and new units is necissary.Also a mod with much CTD is a dissapointing mod,as you can never play without the fear off CTD and you won't be able to do somethings because of this most hated bug.
    So i would recommand that you finish what you're doing or planed to do.If you get other ideas,you can put that in a later version of BC,and then you have something new to entertain us.
    But really,very nice work,and the long working will not be unrewarded.
    (Now i'm getting sick of peptalking,AD,mirage,and others,just do youre best)

  13. #13
    teh.frickin.pope's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    Quote Originally Posted by Basileos View Post
    The mod takes maybe a bit too long and people can get anoyed.
    Even if BC took another six months to complete, it would almost certainly be record-setting time for a mod of this size.

    @Mirage, too bad you don't live in the states or you'd be on a week of turkey vacation.

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  14. #14
    Tadzreuli's Avatar Chevalier Blanche
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    thanks AD, great answer !!! thanks a lot !!! + rep

  15. #15
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    What is the likelihood that this will be reversed from “give us updates” to “do it quicker”???

    I suggested read again the last two paragraphs from AD's message

  16. #16
    Erwin Rommel's Avatar EYE-PATCH FETISH
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    and i thought somebody would post
    "Dont be so hasty Sadiq!"

    (Its clickable by the way....An S2 overhaul mod.)

    Seriously. Click it. Its the only overhaul mod that's overhauling enough to bring out NEW clans
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  17. #17
    Erwin Rommel's Avatar EYE-PATCH FETISH
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    I knew IT, you will post that! btw what the HELL is Sadiq?

    (Its clickable by the way....An S2 overhaul mod.)

    Seriously. Click it. Its the only overhaul mod that's overhauling enough to bring out NEW clans
    Masaie. Retainer of Akaie|AntonIII






  18. #18
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    Sadiq = something like "Sir" or "Respected one".

    Anyways, thats Off Topic.

  19. #19

    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    Any Idea what is triggering the CTD?
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  20. #20
    Basileos's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: A few thoughts and questions,

    AD,mirage, it may be a good idea to release is at christmas if it is ready by then.BC would be a very nice christmas present!

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