Lusted's AI vs. Ultimate AI 1.6

**tininho** · November 15, 2007, 12:03 PM

Simply put, which one is better?

**xeryx** · November 15, 2007, 03:53 PM

Go check out the XAI, and see if you like it.

**tininho** · November 15, 2007, 04:26 PM

Sounds very good, anything one should know when installing with SS 5.1?

**xeryx** · November 15, 2007, 07:25 PM

You can find all info in this thread

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123995

Don't want to get in trouble for cross posting!!!

**HaveFallen** · November 16, 2007, 02:34 AM

Woh, that AI is very tantalizing, I can put it into SS 5.1 right?

**Lusted** · November 16, 2007, 05:23 AM

It depends on personal opinion which one you think is best. I(obviously) think mine is best, i'm sure xeryx thinks his is best, and GrandViz likewise. And some players will agree with us, others will disagree etc.

But here is the list of what my campaign AI does if you are interested:

-Stronger alliances, and allies which help each other more. This results in alliance blocs forming which also change over the course of the game.
-More logical changes to faction standings. So you and the AI will no longer always end up terrible and untrustworthy.
-More logical diplomacy, so it is now a more useful tool in the campaign.
-Rarer Catholic - Islamic alliances.
-Better AI sense of survivability. AI factions are more likely to want peace/vassal if being beaten/beaten badly.
-Better AI garrisoning settlements, and use of forces to guard it's borders.
-More aggressive AI v Independent Factions(eg the rebels from vanilla), so the AI expands much better early on and so the AI can create powerful nations.
-Better AI invasions. It will now build up more before attacking, and attack with more stacks, and stacks which have more units in them.
-Catholic factions less likely to attack each other, but still plenty of wars going on to give that Total War and Medieval experience.

**scivian** · November 16, 2007, 05:35 AM

Would any of you AI developers care to point out some differences in approaches, methods, and/or specific goals between various parts of your mod and the others that you've noticed? Perhaps even get a dialog going between yourselves in order to aid each other and further these goals.

**mailor** · November 16, 2007, 05:35 AM

Hey Lusted, is there a way to not have catholic factions get excommunicated so quickly by the pope? I don't like it, to always see 3 or 4 factions being excommunicated because they wage war against other catholic factions.

**Lusted** · November 16, 2007, 05:46 AM

Hey Lusted, is there a way to not have catholic factions get excommunicated so quickly by the pope? I don't like it, to always see 3 or 4 factions being excommunicated because they wage war against other catholic factions.

I could if i wanted to really restrict wars between catholics, but i don't. They historically beat the hell out of each other all the time in the medieval period, so i like having catholic v catholic wars. I mean what are the catholics meant to do if they don't fight each other, it means they wouldn't be able to expand and are just waiting for the player to roll over them. By having them fight(though reduced slightly from vanilla) and conquer each other allows for them to expand and grow, and gives the medieval and Total War feel.

**mailor** · November 16, 2007, 06:03 AM

No, I don't mean that they shouldn't fight each other. I mean is there a way, the pope doesn't punish them so quickly for fighting each other?

Because I don't think excommunication of whole Factions really happened very often in history (I think Henry V, holy roman emperor got excommunicated in 1078 or so because he did something that pissed the pope off).

The problem is, that most often 3 or 4 factions are excommunicated, and someone calls a crusade against one of the central european cities. This is kind of stupid, since the people living there usually are still catholics, even if the King did something stupid to piss the pope off and get excommunicated.

So, is there a way, to lower the excommunication rate of factions that attack other catholic factions (without lowering the chances they fight each other)?

**Lusted** · November 16, 2007, 06:08 AM

Yes, you'd have to reduce the faction standing hits for transgressions v catholics in the faction_standing.txt file. Though can't say i've seen more than 1 or 2 factions excommunicated at a time playiong LTC 4.1.

**mailor** · November 16, 2007, 06:13 AM

Thanks a lot for the info Lusted!

**akagi28** · November 16, 2007, 07:31 AM

unfortunately for me, i'm still on ss4.1 but Lusted's AI has been very good. I recommend it for those without Kingdoms yet.

Some things i've noticed is that AI alliances don't last very long (though some do). But he is right that if catholics vs catholics didn't happen then it wouldn't be too fun.

The other thing is that factions do get excommunicated way too much. Almost every faction except 2 have either 0 or at most 3 crosses for pope's favor.
Also, factions that have a lot of enemies don't seem to want peace except against the human player. A few factions have 4 enemies and france has 6 or so. This makes it hard for them to survive too long.

**glitch** · November 16, 2007, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by akagi28

unfortunately for me, i'm still on ss4.1 but Lusted's AI has been very good. I recommend it for those without Kingdoms yet.

Some things i've noticed is that AI alliances don't last very long (though some do). But he is right that if catholics vs catholics didn't happen then it wouldn't be too fun.

The other thing is that factions do get excommunicated way too much. Almost every faction except 2 have either 0 or at most 3 crosses for pope's favor.
Also, factions that have a lot of enemies don't seem to want peace except against the human player. A few factions have 4 enemies and france has 6 or so. This makes it hard for them to survive too long.

Really? I've had alliances that have last since the beginning of game (It's the year 1350 now). There are actually periods of peace between the catholic nations. And when a nation becomes badly beaten up, they usually ask for peace but trying to get them to be vassals is hard.

**akagi28** · November 16, 2007, 11:16 AM

well, my alliances last for a long time or at least a few of them. The AI's are on and off type situation. Make alliances, break it because allies at war. Make it again and then break it....

**Primvs Sextvs Loverlord** · November 16, 2007, 07:22 AM

Ultimate AI's AI is very stable and ruthless indeed. It has most of the qualities posted by Lusted. Having said that, your preference, skill and experience determine which AI you'd be better suited to.

**xeryx** · November 16, 2007, 11:38 AM

Please read the first page of the XAI to get an idea if the goals and refinement. I currently do not have the time for a public debate. I have to finish refining the XAI for Kingdoms. I am also working converting the XAI to the the normal medieval 2 engine. Then I will??? its a secret. Naimad is also doing development of other files like the Faction standings file. We have many goals to accomplish and we want to complete some of these before Christmas!! We are new to the AI scene, and we want the definitively best AI out there!! WHY, because we are just like you, and want to really enjoy a complete campaign. In my readme I explain there are many files that affect the AI. Now that the XAI is in the refinement stage, we can focus on improving the those other files that affect the AI.
I am getting back to work now... have a great day!!