Quick Question Regarding LOTR

[therussian]

It doesn't really have anything to do with the mod, but I was always curious: I've read both LOTR and Silmarillion, and never really understood the geography of Silmarillion; is it an older version of Middle Earth in LOTR, just different due to like geographical change over a long period of time, or is it a completely different land, far away from the Middle Earth depicted in LotR?

I hope that made sense

[monkeyman]

i'm not so big on this but i believe that the simalrillion took place in beleriand and this place was drowned by the valar just east of the middle-earth depicted in the lotr.

[Cemendur Telcontar]

I've read both, and I'm a certified LOTR historian (not really but still). The land of the Simarillion was an extension of that in LOTR. Beriland it was called, and it was located beyond the Ered Lune, or Blue Mountains. The Blue Mountains used to be much larger, but after Beriland sunk under the sea after the War of Wrath, they broke apart. Before that, the lands that LOTR takes place in were uninhabited.

[therussian]

Why/How did Beriland sink under the sea? And, **** me for forgetting, but where are the Blue Mountains again, generally speaking?

Edit: Ah, ok, I located the Blue Mountains. So Beriland was west of LotR Middle Earth, yes? Closer to Numenor?

[coinich]

I've essentially read as much as you have, but Beleriand was swamped over with and because of the sinking of Numenor by the Valar, correct? The sea stopped close to the Blue Mountains, creating the roughly present day coast of Middle Earth.

[Cemendur Telcontar]

No Beriland was swamped over because the host of the Valar was so great, and the fall of Thangordium so great, that the land could not take it, it was destroyed. So the Valar sunk it under the seas.

[therussian]

No Beriland was swamped over because the host of the Valar was so great, and the fall of Thangordium so great, that the land could not take it, it was destroyed. So the Valar sunk it under the seas.

Explain. I know that Numenor was sunk by the Valar, but they didn't sink Beriland in the process, did they?

[Amroth]

Númenor was sunk by Ilúvatar (the One), and not the Valar. Beleriand sunk in the Sea during, and as a consequence of, the War of Wrath between the Valar and Morgoth. The only parts of Beleriand which remain are Lindon (incl. parts of the Ered Luin), and some smaller islands, such as Himling (which was earlier the Hill of Himring).

[therussian]

Ah, ok, I understand now. I look at some maps, and it makes sense. One last thing though: which came chronologically first, the sinking of Beleriand, or Numenor? Or were Men on Numenor before or after the Sinking?

Thanks

[Amroth]

The sinking of Beleriand came first; the War of Wrath ended the First Age. The drowning of Númenor happened during the Second Age.

Edit: Aradan beat me to it.

[Aradan]

The sinking of Beleriand happened at the end of the First Age, while the sinking of Numenor happened near the end of the Second Age, some 3000 years later.

Numenor was created after the First Age ended, therefore after Beleriand was sunk.

[Cemendur Telcontar]

According to unwritten drafts by Tolkein, Beriland would be ressurected at the End, where Morgoth will resurect all of his folowers (including Sauron) and fight all the elves and Edain, eventually he will be slain by Turin Turambar.