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  1. #1

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    On the issue of names...

    I'm almost finished fixing the names for TLR. I'm going through the files now, one at a time, to make sure there are no mistakes.

    I've drastically simplified the family trees. Lopus and Tornnight were going for historical accuracy on the dynasties, so they had family trees which started with dead characters. Unfortunately, this led to some seriously overbalanced family trees like that of Sicily.

    What I've done is made the faction leader as historically accurate as possible. Some factions present difficulties, which I'll explain.

    The faction leader is the oldest member on the family tree. Then there is his wife, and heir. The heir is always at least 16, so he can be a general too, which required adjusting some ages ahistorically. That is the bare minimum for family trees. But it isn't enough for the larger factions. So, those factions with more provinces have more adult family members, enough for a family member to begin as governor in each settlement of that faction.

    Those factions with just 2 starting provinces will have the faction leader and the heir in the settlements, plus a non-family general. The factions with only 1 province at the start will have the faction leader in the settlement and the heir as general of an army in the field. Factions with 4 and 5 provinces will have family members only as governors and no non-family generals unless there aren't enough historical family members for each settlement.

    It turns out that historically there are enough family members to make the above possible, with some license in the case of provinces which don't fit the 1080 start date very well. For those I've done the following:

    The Moors are a mess of petty taifas in 1080. But very soon, historically, they will be taken over by the Almoravids. So I used the Almoravids, with Abu Bakr as faction leader, Zaynab as his wife, Yusuf ibn Tashfin as his heir (will show as son, but considerhim adopted). Oddly, Yusuf's wife was the same Zaynab who was married to Abu Bakr. So two Zaynabs show in the family tree; but they are the same person, really. Abu Bakr divorced her before he went on a campaign in the Sahara and had Yusuf marry her. She bore Yusuf children, Ali ibn Yusuf, Fadl ibn Yusuf and al-Mu'izz ibn Yusuf.

    The Khwarezmids are another problem. Technically, they weren't independent until sometime after 1080, but the founder was already the governor. Since they start with just one province, the faction leader Anushtigin and his son Muhammed are enough, although Muhammed starts married and has his son, Atsiz, as age 1.

    Kiev and Novgorod present another problem. For Kiev, that's easy enough, I just use the historical Kievan Grand Princes. But, historically, the eldest son of the Grand Prince was made Prince of Novgorod. This won't do. And half the time, Novgorod ignored them anyway. However, at the time of the game start, in 1080, the Prince in Novgorod was Sviatopolk II. He would actually become Grand Prince after Vsevolod. But they both have family trees, so it works to have Vsevolod in Kiev and Sviatopolk in Novogord with their own dynasties. Sviatopolk was married to an unnamed Bohemian princess who bore him his son, Yaropolk and some daughters. I just made her up, as Lyudmila, since Vratislaus II of Bohemia actually had a daughter named Ludmilla slightly later (1100 or so).

    Venice, I went with the historical Doge, Domenico Selvo, as usual. But I found that he had a rarely mentioned wife, Teodora Duca, the daughter of Constantine X. So I just made up a family tree from there. Historically, of course, the Doges were chosen by popularity. If it's possible the use the Teutonic-style of family tree from Kingdoms, then this would be perfect for Venice and Milan in Darth Ages.

    Milan was a republican commune during our time period. There was no ruling family. However, not far away in the Piedmont, the Margraves of Montferrat maintained a family dynasty. So it was easy to simply port them over to Milan and pretend that they were in control of the area. Another choice would be the House of Savoy, which eventually did indeed control the area - much later.

    Portugal, of course, didn't beomce an independent Kindgom until Afonso declared himself King in 1129. So I went with his father Henry of Burgundy, as Henrique with his wife Teresa (illegitimate - among many - daughter of Alfonso of Castille and Leon), with Afonso as their son and their daughters Urraca and Sancha and played with the ages a bit.

    The rest are pretty much the same, with the exception of eliminating the dead predecessors in the family trees and adjusting ages so enough family members could be governors. I also updated all the names to the more language correct versions from the Character Names Project 3.0, so Canute become Knud and so on.

    For fleets, many of the factions had 2 fleets of a single ship, thus requiring two admirals and the game sometimes got cranky and wouldn't allow them to becombined into a single fleet. So I did it for all the factions with fleets. Instead of 2 fleets of 1 ship each, they have 1 fleet with 2 ships at the start. In those cases where they had more than 1 ship in the fleets, like Venice, I left them as is.

    I also corrected the ship type for Sicily from dhows to galleys, as mentioned in the post above.

    Have it all ready in a day or so. I also updated a few of the faction leader and faction heir titles in the expanded.txt; so that will be a changed file also.

  2. #2

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Quote Originally Posted by Averroës View Post
    On the issue of names...

    I'm almost finished fixing the names for TLR. I'm going through the files now, one at a time, to make sure there are no mistakes.

    I've drastically simplified the family trees. Lopus and Tornnight were going for historical accuracy on the dynasties, so they had family trees which started with dead characters. Unfortunately, this led to some seriously overbalanced family trees like that of Sicily.

    What I've done is made the faction leader as historically accurate as possible. Some factions present difficulties, which I'll explain.

    The faction leader is the oldest member on the family tree. Then there is his wife, and heir. The heir is always at least 16, so he can be a general too, which required adjusting some ages ahistorically. That is the bare minimum for family trees. But it isn't enough for the larger factions. So, those factions with more provinces have more adult family members, enough for a family member to begin as governor in each settlement of that faction.

    Those factions with just 2 starting provinces will have the faction leader and the heir in the settlements, plus a non-family general. The factions with only 1 province at the start will have the faction leader in the settlement and the heir as general of an army in the field. Factions with 4 and 5 provinces will have family members only as governors and no non-family generals unless there aren't enough historical family members for each settlement.

    It turns out that historically there are enough family members to make the above possible, with some license in the case of provinces which don't fit the 1080 start date very well. For those I've done the following:

    The Moors are a mess of petty taifas in 1080. But very soon, historically, they will be taken over by the Almoravids. So I used the Almoravids, with Abu Bakr as faction leader, Zaynab as his wife, Yusuf ibn Tashfin as his heir (will show as son, but considerhim adopted). Oddly, Yusuf's wife was the same Zaynab who was married to Abu Bakr. So two Zaynabs show in the family tree; but they are the same person, really. Abu Bakr divorced her before he went on a campaign in the Sahara and had Yusuf marry her. She bore Yusuf children, Ali ibn Yusuf, Fadl ibn Yusuf and al-Mu'izz ibn Yusuf.

    The Khwarezmids are another problem. Technically, they weren't independent until sometime after 1080, but the founder was already the governor. Since they start with just one province, the faction leader Anushtigin and his son Muhammed are enough, although Muhammed starts married and has his son, Atsiz, as age 1.

    Kiev and Novgorod present another problem. For Kiev, that's easy enough, I just use the historical Kievan Grand Princes. But, historically, the eldest son of the Grand Prince was made Prince of Novgorod. This won't do. And half the time, Novgorod ignored them anyway. However, at the time of the game start, in 1080, the Prince in Novgorod was Sviatopolk II. He would actually become Grand Prince after Vsevolod. But they both have family trees, so it works to have Vsevolod in Kiev and Sviatopolk in Novogord with their own dynasties. Sviatopolk was married to an unnamed Bohemian princess who bore him his son, Yaropolk and some daughters. I just made her up, as Lyudmila, since Vratislaus II of Bohemia actually had a daughter named Ludmilla slightly later (1100 or so).

    Venice, I went with the historical Doge, Domenico Selvo, as usual. But I found that he had a rarely mentioned wife, Teodora Duca, the daughter of Constantine X. So I just made up a family tree from there. Historically, of course, the Doges were chosen by popularity. If it's possible the use the Teutonic-style of family tree from Kingdoms, then this would be perfect for Venice and Milan in Darth Ages.

    Milan was a republican commune during our time period. There was no ruling family. However, not far away in the Piedmont, the Margraves of Montferrat maintained a family dynasty. So it was easy to simply port them over to Milan and pretend that they were in control of the area. Another choice would be the House of Savoy, which eventually did indeed control the area - much later.

    Portugal, of course, didn't beomce an independent Kindgom until Afonso declared himself King in 1129. So I went with his father Henry of Burgundy, as Henrique with his wife Teresa (illegitimate - among many - daughter of Alfonso of Castille and Leon), with Afonso as their son and their daughters Urraca and Sancha and played with the ages a bit.

    The rest are pretty much the same, with the exception of eliminating the dead predecessors in the family trees and adjusting ages so enough family members could be governors. I also updated all the names to the more language correct versions from the Character Names Project 3.0, so Canute become Knud and so on.

    For fleets, many of the factions had 2 fleets of a single ship, thus requiring two admirals and the game sometimes got cranky and wouldn't allow them to becombined into a single fleet. So I did it for all the factions with fleets. Instead of 2 fleets of 1 ship each, they have 1 fleet with 2 ships at the start. In those cases where they had more than 1 ship in the fleets, like Venice, I left them as is.

    I also corrected the ship type for Sicily from dhows to galleys, as mentioned in the post above.

    Have it all ready in a day or so. I also updated a few of the faction leader and faction heir titles in the expanded.txt; so that will be a changed file also.

    I respect your work but the 3 Turkish Sultanate family members are wrong. Most importantly game shows abbassids have baghdad as their capital but their leader is Melikshah Jalal Al-dawlah who is son of Alparslan who cast the romans out of anatolia.So they should be the great seljuk empire or you have to change them to abbassid rulers. He should also have 4 sons at the time of the game but they are underage to be generals. Second Emirate of Damascus has jerusalem and their sultan is melikshah's brother Tutush al-dawlah. and there is no union between the 3 turkish sultanates. I hope you can fix this too.

    With Respect
    Hello. Today we are gathered here to do battle. Regretable, isn't it? but sometimes, you know, life is like that. You have to do something that you don't want to do, just because someone is telling you to do it. I didn't want to be here myself, but then my mother told me that I'd better make a reasonable show of it all, so here we go then...
    Today we fight against monsters - the Gauls! They are dangerous, mad and hairy beyond reason. In victory, they are always heartless.

  3. #3

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    I agree. But then, I didn't make the mod. I thought I said so here, but it must have been in the Darth Ages thread which is where most of the TLR changes are being done. I posted that the faction name should be changed to the Great Selçuq Empire since TLR was using those names and the empire was technically in control of the Abbassids at the time.

    The Abbassids should indeed be called the Great Selçuq Empire with the capital in Isfahan. At the time, the Abbassid Caliphate was mostly just a puppet for the Great Selçuq.

    All I could do was correct the names and change the title of the faction leader from Sultan to Great Selçuq and the faction heir Şehzade. If I knew how to change the faction name, I would.

    As for sons, some discretion has to be used to make the game playable. Ages had to be adjusted away from the historical fact, simply to make the game playable. Having 4 sons underage and then relying on generals to fill governor positions is inviting a problem with too many generals/sons in a few years. So I adjusted the ages. You'll notice that all 4 of Melikşah's sons are in the family tree for the Abbassids (yes, they should be the Great Selçuq Empire). So Berkyaruk, Mahmud, Muhammed and Ahmed are all there, as sons of Melikşah, with the ages adjusted so two of them are old enough to be governors of settlements.

    In Syria, I again had to adjust ages to allow for enough family member governors; but you'll notice that I correctly have Ridvan (Fakhr al-Mulk Radwan) older than his brother Duqaq (Abu Nasr Shams al-Muluk Duqaq); but Duqaq is shown as the faction heir. This reflects historical reality, in which Ridvan/Ridwan and Duqaq fought over their father's legacy but with Duqaq having the most support and eventually gaining control of Damascus from his brother.

    I did try to be as historically correct as possible, with what I was doing - which was only correcting/updating names and family trees. It's up to someone else to change the faction name.
    Last edited by Averroës; December 11, 2007 at 12:35 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    @ averroes

    man if you want to change the faction names you can find them in the expanded.txt file in text folder. It's the simplest thing to mod
    Hello. Today we are gathered here to do battle. Regretable, isn't it? but sometimes, you know, life is like that. You have to do something that you don't want to do, just because someone is telling you to do it. I didn't want to be here myself, but then my mother told me that I'd better make a reasonable show of it all, so here we go then...
    Today we fight against monsters - the Gauls! They are dangerous, mad and hairy beyond reason. In victory, they are always heartless.

  5. #5

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Excellent stuff Ave, I believe that this will solve many ingame CTd´s.

    Your help is most valuable.

    Saludos
    y
    Respeto
    -:-
    Greetings
    &
    Respect




    Dominion of the Sword / The Long Road GFX designer / Zuma Team member.
    TLRaced GFX add on for TLR2.0
    www.andresgogo.com

  6. #6

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Quote Originally Posted by acegogo View Post
    Excellent stuff Ave, I believe that this will solve many ingame CTd´s.

    Your help is most valuable.
    Thanks!

    I'm hoping it does solve many of them, Acegogo! I'm beginning to think that many of the CTD's reported to be caused by slave money are in fact due to the game creating a rebel army and going to names list and picking a name with bugs.

    I'm finding odd things everywhere. I just discovered tonight that some of the province listings in descr_strat have odd listings on the "faction_creator" line. Pereslawl was showing as faction_creator hungary. Then I found more oddities like Akkerman and Astarabad also showing as faction_creator hungary, meanwhile Campalung was showing as faction_creator kiev!


    I don't know what that line does, but I'm betting it was a mistake. I'll go through them once I find out what that line means and I am done with the names changes - maybe. I've had Kingdoms since Wednesday and haven't even played it yet! I got into this name checking and can't stop!

  7. #7

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    yes I believe is got something to do with this as I have checked the money script in Darth mod and I couldn´t see substancial differences with out money scripts, in fact, and I might be wrong I believe thay are the very, very similar.!!!

    Saludos
    y
    Respeto
    -:-
    Greetings
    &
    Respect




    Dominion of the Sword / The Long Road GFX designer / Zuma Team member.
    TLRaced GFX add on for TLR2.0
    www.andresgogo.com

  8. #8
    Thorn's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Money scripts were almost the same till last version.. i have decreased them to half "your" values

  9. #9

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    ok, what I have been trying is to give them more, this way they seem to cope better with big garrisons and they even build a plenty. the first few rebel provinces nations take are the same as always but as less and less are left they become hugely powerful!!! not easy to take even with a full stack!!!!!

    Saludos
    y
    Respeto
    -:-
    Greetings
    &
    Respect




    Dominion of the Sword / The Long Road GFX designer / Zuma Team member.
    TLRaced GFX add on for TLR2.0
    www.andresgogo.com

  10. #10
    Thorn's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Quote Originally Posted by acegogo View Post
    ok, what I have been trying is to give them more, this way they seem to cope better with big garrisons and they even build a plenty. the first few rebel provinces nations take are the same as always but as less and less are left they become hugely powerful!!! not easy to take even with a full stack!!!!!
    Yeah.. but we play with diferent unit cost/upkeep

  11. #11

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    true ofcourse!!!

    must have a long darth ages campaign!!!

    Saludos
    y
    Respeto
    -:-
    Greetings
    &
    Respect




    Dominion of the Sword / The Long Road GFX designer / Zuma Team member.
    TLRaced GFX add on for TLR2.0
    www.andresgogo.com

  12. #12

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Always remember that this is a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    and thanks again for all the stuff you are working on

    Saludos
    y
    Respeto
    -:-
    Greetings
    &
    Respect




    Dominion of the Sword / The Long Road GFX designer / Zuma Team member.
    TLRaced GFX add on for TLR2.0
    www.andresgogo.com

  13. #13

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    I have succeeded! Remind me to run the next time I even think about playing with the names files again.

    The files attached below have the fixes to the names files, plus an updated expanded.txt file which is optional if you wish to have the updated faction heir and faction leader titles.

    NOTE:

    Please, before you do anything else, backup your old version of the files being changed. You can simply rename them by adding OLD_ at the beginning of each file name or something similar. Do not forget this! The files to backup are the following:

    /The_Long_Road/data/descr_names.txt
    /The_Long_Road/data/descr_names_lookup.txt
    /The_Long_Road/data/text/names.txt
    /The_Long_Road/data/text/names.txt.strings.bin
    /The_Long_Road/data/text/expanded.txt
    /The_Long_Road/data/text/expanded.txt.strings.bin
    /The_Long_Road/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_strat.txt

    After backing up the above files - you DID, didn't you? - delete the following files:

    /The_Long_Road/data/text/names.txt.strings.bin
    /The_Long_Road/data/text/expanded.txt.strings.bin

    The game will make new versions of those files the first time you play after installing the files below:

    Now, download the files below if you haven't already done so.

    After you have the files downloaded, copy them into the correct locations? The files go into the following folders:

    /The_Long_Road/data/descr_names.txt
    /The_Long_Road/data/descr_names_lookup.txt
    /The_Long_Road/data/text/names.txt
    /The_Long_Road/data/text/expanded.txt
    /The_Long_Road/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_strat.txt

    Note: expanded.txt is optional. It updates the faction leader and faction heir names. For example, the Abbassid Sultan is now the Great Selçuk and his heir will now show as (name) Şehzade. The Byzantine faction leader will be Basileos and his heir Kaisar, whereas the HRE leader is the Kaiser and his heir is the Prinz. If you wish to keep the old titles, don't install the new expanded.txt file.

    Other changes:

    The names fixes should hopefully eliminate many of the odd CTD's. I think what was happening wasn't due to slave money. Instead, whenever the game was creating a new named rebel, like an admiral or general, it was finding names which aren't accepted. These are things like unicode letters such ö or ä or spaces inside the {} in the names.txt file. And there were many.

    You will also notice that the family trees have been trimmed. No more heirs popping out of the woodwork in Sicily. I tried to stay as historically correct as possible, changing only ages when possible.

    Factions with only 1 starting province will begin with a faction leader in the capital and nearby the heir with his small army. (All faction leaders have been placed in the capital)

    Factions with 2 starting provinces will begin with the faction leader and heir in the settlements and either another son or a non-family character leading a nearby army.

    Factions with 3 or more starting provinces will have the leader and heir and any other sons in settlements with extra non-family characters as needed to make sure that each settlement begins with a governor. They won't have any extra armies outside the settlements. They already begin with the advantage of 3+ provinces and thus an extra income advantage.

    Factions which begin with a princess already of age will not start with a diplomat; since she can be one. Factions with no princess old enough will start with a diplomat.

    I didn't mess with spies, priests or merchants, except to adjust the starting positions a little. For example, the priest and army which Hungary used to have near Cluj has been moved nearer to Buda.

    The bug with the Sicilian starting fleets has been fixed. They had dhows. They now have the correct galleys to match the culture they were given.

    For those factions which had two fleets with only one ship in each, I combined the fleets into one fleet. Those factions which already had multiple ships in each fleet remain the same.

    I fixed the odd faction_creator placements in the descr_strat as well. In the old file many settlements had unusual faction_creator designations. For example, some of the steppes settlements had England as the faction_creator. This wouldn't matter unless the province revolted and went rebel. You'd suddenly find the steppe province garrisoned by a general with an English name. I went through and corrected them all. Northern steppes provinces have Russia or Kiev now, southern and eastern have the Turks, and so on.

    One last note:

    The new descr_strat.txt file contains my changes to the resource locations. If you prefer to use your own or the old TLR version of resources, then just open the files with something like Windows Notepad and copy and paste the appropriate portion from your old descr_strat text into the section near the top of the file which starts with ; >>>> start of resources section <<<<

    I also corrected the placement of several resources, such as the grain in Zaragosa and the grain in Palermo. If you find others, please let me know!

    That's it! Sorry the post is so long. I believe in being thorough.
    Last edited by Averroës; December 16, 2007 at 11:13 PM. Reason: changes to names.txt and expanded.txt

  14. #14

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    TOP MAN!!!!

    I´ll be away till next wednesday, but will have some feedback!!!!



    FIRST POST UPDATED...

    we are nearly there guys, must do some testing to check out everything so far works!!!!
    Last edited by acegogo; December 07, 2007 at 05:14 AM.

    Saludos
    y
    Respeto
    -:-
    Greetings
    &
    Respect




    Dominion of the Sword / The Long Road GFX designer / Zuma Team member.
    TLRaced GFX add on for TLR2.0
    www.andresgogo.com

  15. #15
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    That's good newa!!!I'll wait for the next release of yours!!!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  16. #16
    Irishmafia2020's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Are the name files compatible with the Darth Ages mod that uses TLR as a base?

  17. #17
    Thorn's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    i dont know.., i must look at those files

  18. #18

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    The only thing which might be cause incompatibility would be if Naimad made any changes to the descr_strat.txt file. Since that is where all the initial names for the beginning of the game are stated and every name there must match the other 3 files. All the other 3 files do is provide the game engine the correct structure for the names.

    The expanded.txt should be good as is for Darth Ages. All I changed in that was the titles for some of the faction heirs and faction leaders. Nothing else, literally, was changed in that file.


    My next project is to go through the Darth Ages descr_strat.txt and check. Any changes to the descr_strat would make my new one up there incompatible. I'll go through line byline and check for differences. If there are none, then all of the abovefiles are good for Darth Ages. If there are some changes, then I can match them and release a new descr_strat.txt for Darth Ages, if Naimad wants me to do so.

  19. #19
    Thorn's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Dont worry i'm updating my file with yours..

    EDIT: Your strat file (from TLR) is buged.. standings rules cant handle several factions -0.8 portugal, spain = -0.8 Portugal
    You need to make the rules one on one...
    Last edited by Thorn; December 07, 2007 at 04:02 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT....

    Quote Originally Posted by Naimad View Post
    Dont worry i'm updating my file with yours..

    EDIT: Your strat file (from TLR) is buged.. standings rules cant handle several factions -0.8 portugal, spain = -0.8 Portugal
    You need to make the rules one on one...
    That's something I know nothing about. I have no idea what to fix. So far, I've only modded resources and now the names files!

    Are you saying that they must match? So, the standing of Portugal to Spain must match the standing of Spain to Portugal? That seems easy enough to fix.

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