I just need more from the campaign mode, any suggestions?

[WRL]

I love this game/SSmod, but the one thing I've found that I don't like is that it almost seems soley based on combat, within 75 years the entire campaign map is at war with someone, and that really defeats the campaign mod of the game, CIV 4 total realism was great like that, you build an empire, which is so much more than winning a battle, but the combat was laughable, point is, it wasn't all about the combat, I guess is what I'm saying, is there anyway to gear this more towards an empire builder, and not just building units to take to the field. The battles are the best around, I just need more from the campaign mode? Any suggestions.

I'm leaning toward toning down the AI so that relations are rational, no random wars, backstabbing, Alliances that mean something, national relations take time, work, and effort...

I just downloaded 5.1 so if this is fixed already, sorry, but I'm thinking it's a pipe dream.

[Skibbles]

I think your looking to the less common version: Medieval 2 : Total Sim City.

All joking aside, I agree with you a little bit. I like the empire building aspect of the Total War series, so much so that I end up simply playing defensively, sending one giant stack to do all the dirty work.

[Lusted]

I'm leaning toward toning down the AI so that relations are rational, no random wars, backstabbing, Alliances that mean something, national relations take time, work, and effort...

I just downloaded 5.1 so if this is fixed already, sorry, but I'm thinking it's a pipe dream.

5.1 uses my Campaign AI, which changes the following from vanilla:

-Stronger alliances, and allies which help each other more. This results in alliance blocs forming which also change over the course of the game.
-More logical changes to faction standings. So you and the AI will no longer always end up terrible and untrustworthy.
-More logical diplomacy, so it is now a more useful tool in the campaign.
-Rarer Catholic - Islamic alliances.
-Better AI sense of survivability. AI factions are more likely to want peace/vassal if being beaten/beaten badly.
-Better AI garrisoning settlements, and use of forces to guard it's borders.
-More aggressive AI v Independent Factions(eg the rebels from vanilla), so the AI expands much better early on and so the AI can create powerful nations.
-Better AI invasions. It will now build up more before attacking, and attack with more stacks, and stacks which have more units in them.
-Catholic factions less likely to attack each other, but still plenty of wars going on to give that Total War and Medieval experience.

[schulthies]

Lusted, your portion of the mod gives me a rager!

Not to say the rest of the mod doesn't

Keep up the good work

[Caspand]

WRL not to come here on SS forum and tell people to play other mods, yet it is what i am about to do =)

Sounds to me like you need to play DVL instead of SS.

Dvl is amuch slower paced experience, where the focus is on the campaign map and not on the battle map.

Best of luck finding what you look for.

Caspand

[Graywolf]

Lusted I can attest to what you are saying, great work with the campaign AI. For the first time I am actually able to acquire new lands peacefully. For example I got Sofia from the Hungarians in exchange for an alliance and they paid me 8.5k to attack the Byzantines. This is good because its allowed me to establish a foothold in Europe for my empire.

Some nations, like russia, are allied to half the map and are focused on diplomacy.. lil wierd but mostly funny. Others are completely warlord nations, such as the fatimids which are the most powerful and have already invaded the balkans and have a large list of enemies.

[republic_bohemia]

WRL not to come here on SS forum and tell people to play other mods, yet it is what i am about to do =)

Sounds to me like you need to play DVL instead of SS.

Dvl is amuch slower paced experience, where the focus is on the campaign map and not on the battle map.

Best of luck finding what you look for.

Caspand

Yes I agree DVL is a good mod for campaign,but it does not offer as much units and AL smartness and also DVL contains more bugs.
This Mod community also is more active on upgrades and suggestions in my opinion.

[Caesar Clivus]

Too much combat? At the risk of sounding cynical, the game is called "Total War"

[WRL]

Too much combat? At the risk of sounding cynical, the game is called "Total War"

And don't get me wrong, as I posted the battles are the best around, I've actually gone and studied military tactics of the period to better enjoy these great battles, and I'm still waiting for that armor progression mod I'm certainly not saying I don't like this mod, I love it, don't play the game any other way, I was just hoping to get an open dialog on possible changes that could be made to make the campaign have further depth...

However Lusted (thanks for all your work) seems to have posted some positive developments. I just started a new 5.1 campaign, as Ireland, and I'm 20 years in, so lets see...

One thing in particular that gets me is to many Christian Muslim alliances, especially against another Christian faction...

[smitty]

WRL, I too have been trying to get more out of the campaign mode over the past few months. I've found SS to be an excellent mod to aid me in this endeavor. One thing I've done I'm sure others have mentioned is that I make more of an effort to roleplay my generals. As Norway I had my first King make a real effort to exterminate the Danes, as they had a legacy of dominating the Norweigan Kingdom and he was out to seek vengeance. After he died, his son took the throne and sought more to conquer the English Isles rather than busy himself with the remnants of the Danes. I refused to attack Russia because the 2nd king married one of their daughters as well, creating an uneasy alliance that might erupt later (especially because Russia owns Stockholm, and the Norweigan's don't like this). I also don't play aggressively and prefer to 'turtle' as many people put it. This way more factions stay alive and diplomacy plays a much greater part in expansion and warfare.

[republic_bohemia]

I think what he meant by To much combat is that to much combat can get boring.

[Quark]

What would be nice is if money was a little tighter and if the building tree varied more per faction. I would also like to see a player forced to build along either a military or merchantile path in the building tree. A building can be based on another one, so for instance

Build a Merchantile centre (no destroyable)
now you can build Market, bazarr etc

Build Military Centre
now you can build armourer etc, but not market

royal_armoury city requires factions { x,y,z } and building_present military_centre

mmm of to suggestions

[Caesar Clivus]

Quark, what would be nice is if the AI could handle such a building tree system

[y2day]

Quark, what would be nice is if the AI could handle such a building tree system

My thoughts exactly

[Quark]

Caesar Clivus
:hmmm:what to do with the Ai. It depends on where you put the decision in the tree. If early on, then yes you would get some illogical decisions, but higher up? Lets face it, the Ai does not get to that stage anyway, how many Ai settlements build armouries or large markets etc. It also depends on cost, if expensive the Ai will chose not to build, if cheap it will.

[Caesar Clivus]

Caesar Clivus
:hmmm:what to do with the Ai. It depends on where you put the decision in the tree. If early on, then yes you would get some illogical decisions, but higher up? Lets face it, the Ai does not get to that stage anyway, how many Ai settlements build armouries or large markets etc. It also depends on cost, if expensive the Ai will chose not to build, if cheap it will.

It's just such a shame that CA didn't include a trait for buildings similar to the recruit_priority_offset trait for units that (supposedly) changes the likelyhood of the AI recruiting them.

[Point Blank]

recruit_priority_offset works quite well. I imported all the recruit_priority_offset values from the various kingdoms mods into my EDU and the army composition is much improved.

[Point Blank]

Well, we kind of have that to a limited degree with the City vs Castle system, but the need for more considered choices when building would indeed be nice.

[WRL]

Well with BBB traits the new ones are swappable, so I'll collect them and give the governors all the tax bonuses, and all the governable bonuses to those who where going to govern, the military leaning ancillaries I give to my generals, that's the best I've come up with on role-playing, but that's still a matter conquering...

[mailor]

My style of playing the late campaign is rather weird, and not aimed at "winning the game":

I only play as Denmark, and always marry my first princess to the norwegian Heir. Then, I only conquer rebel settlements. When This is done, I usually assist Norway against Scotland (since they always seem to attack Norway sooner or later), and defend myself against invaders. Usually the Teuonic Order and Russia get annoying, but I seldom retaliate. Russia even managed to get Visby from me, but I took it back 3 years later.

Then I call a crusade against a Fatimid City (Usually Jerusalem, since it has been conquered by then), and send my heir down there with a big army. I grab some of the settlements down there, and usually give them back to Kingdom of Jerusalem (which are my allies by then). I only keep myself a single castle (Acre) and operate from there. The big battles are going on in the middle east from now on.

In my homelands I am busy keeping some of the invaders at bay in the meantime (Teutons and Russia by now realized they stand no chance, and are peaceful again. Scotland still is bothering norway, So I think I'm going to expand the Denmark-Norway Alliance to the northern part of the british isles. Bye-bye Edinburgh.)

I never exterminate a faction, and usually assist underdogs (especially if they are christians). When muslim factions are getting very weak, I stop waging war against them.

I'll never win the game this way (70 settlements? No thanks...), but it is much fun, to have a rather small empire, with just some colonies in the middle east.

EDIT: What I want to say with this post is: The campaign is more fun, when you play some sort of role, and not try to be the worlds biggest nation.