Civil Wars

[Hippias]

I know nothing about scripting (or triggers come to that) but if scripting civil wars for Rome, GCS and Carthage is too big an issue, what about using a trigger (like Marius uses)?

e.g. for Rome, when they own say 30 provinces (and again when they own 50) split the family members in half, and the half with the lowest loyalty rating go across to the rebels?

[cherryfunk]

That would certainly add a huge challenge to the Roman campaign...

[Scutarii]

This would be good... I like the unified Rome much better than the three families, but the only good thing about the three families Rome was the civil war that could happen. If this could work, that would be great.

[Ephialtes The Dog]

This would be totaly awesome if it worked!

[supeerme]

yes...you will have to kill your own people to stay in charge in the empire... that would give you a hard time. both in the game and in your mind as you may have your best men and all the sudden they are against you.

[Scutarii]

That would also prevent Rome from blitzing Western Europe too fast... It would still happen, which is good, but Gaul would be able to live past 250 BC.

[cherryfunk]

Yes, it would throw a giant, gladius-shaped monkey wrench into Roman plans for domination! I'd be very curious to see if this could be done, and how it would play.

[DimeBagHo]

I already have an idea for how this can be done, I just haven't had time to work out all the kinks.

[Archbaker]

Nice. Thank you, DBH.

[Scutarii]

I already have an idea for how this can be done, I just haven't had time to work out all the kinks.

Woot!

[Dom9127]

However in Vanilla the families only fought each other if you played as Romans, which sucked.

[supeerme]

can it be a piont when britain was taken over by the romans? I think there was a civil war happened when they took it... Or even when the fall of the republic will be a perfect time for a civil war as the reuplics will be fighting against the imperails! (star wars anyone?) sorry for any spelling mistakes?

[Hippias]

Just thinking out loud here - so ignore my ramblings if you wish.

Rebel factions - got to keep them as it is one thing XGM has that others do not.

Problem - Loyalty/Civil Wars not really working at the moment, because at the start the shadow factions don't make a fight of it, and later they rebel in one or two provinces and get squashed. The good news is that DBH is aware of this and has ideas.....:hmmm:

In the meantime, what about this.

Carthage, Greek, Roman and Gallic rebels don't start as they currently do, but all their provinces are actually the 'ordinary' grey rebels (exception - the Gallic Hordes in thrace stay). This way you can give them some sodding great starting armies (Pyrrhus etc) that will be fun for the players to practice their killing on (like ordinary rebels atm). Also, for history buffs, these starting armies/cities can be called Numidians, Samnites, Epirotes, Syracusans etc.

What do you gain - the chance to kick some large interesting butt, without finding yourself against an overpowered shadow faction that comes after you.

What about loyalty I hear you say?

I assume that Dime is going to use scripts/triggers to make the rebels "appear" when they would be really interesting & useful i.e. when the main faction has got so big they are getting it too easy.

But what if the Rebels have already been wiped out?

And this is the really brilliant bit....

Each current shadow faction starts with an unconquerable province as their capital, so the faction will always be there when needed by the trigger e.g. Carthage Rebels (Libyan desert) Gallic Rebels (make Ireland unconquerable) Greek & Roman Rebels...err

..use Arabia Desert for one (it's only a placeholder) or could you use one of the sea regions...or cut that Yuezhi province above baktria, make corsica unconquearble, bring back Lesbos as unconquerable so Roman Rebs have Corsica and Greek Rebs have Lesbos.

Sometimes I amaze myself...well I am off to the pub now - have this implemented by the time I get back

[Unknown Soldier]

I liked the faction switch in medieval total war when a major schism occured in a faction - the played had the choice of which side of the faction was ligit and which was rebel - this would be a good option to have;

Is this doable?

[lankylars]

I remember that from MTW...it could be very tense deciding which side to support depending on how evenly matched they were.
About shadow factions in general, I don't know how much I like them. When I conquer some Gallic town as Carthage and it later rebels, why are the rebels up north there Carthaginian? The cases where shadow factions pop up are mostly unrealistic, in my opinion.

[supeerme]

Lankylars: it becasue you have taken over and everyone in the settlement is now Cartaginian, so when they have rebelled, they are still Carthaginians you seee....

[Archbaker]

And even if they are not all Carthaginians, they will still have been highly influenced by Carthaginian culture, especially if you still control the neighbouring areas.

This did happen to the peoples of Iberia.

[cherryfunk]

Lankylars: it becasue you have taken over and everyone in the settlement is now Cartaginian, so when they have rebelled, they are still Carthaginians you seee....

Well no, not everyone is Carthaginian -- but the leaders are. Look at the Sertorius rebellion in Spain; the people of the rebelling areas were still Iberian, but Sertorius and his key lieutenants were Roman, they even created their own Senate. So while it was in truth an Iberian rebellion, it was politically a Roman one. Same with Caesar and his rebellion. Heck, all he had was a few legions and Gaul, when he declared against Pompey.

Obviously it's not a perfect system, but given the game engine's limitations I think it works pretty well. Although it might be neat if you could randomize it -- some rebellions go over to the shadow faction, and some to the 'slave' rebel faction...

[lankylars]

No, I understand why it's Carthage rebels, I'm just saying that there are limitations to the shadow system. Plus, if a city rebels a couple of years after being taken over by a completely different culture, I imagine that very likely those leading the rebellion would be of the conquered culture.

[cherryfunk]

True, I wonder if there's any way to mix it up.

DBH, could rebellions vary between the shadow faction and the slave faction?