Fanatic’s First Cohort/Phalanx/Elephant/Chariot minimod

**Megas12345** · August 14, 2008, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Foot

You don't perhaps think that that might be incredibly insulting to the people who have worked their arses off to bring you arguably one of the best modifications for RTW. You don't think that perhaps a disagreement on formation for a particular unit might not be a particularly good reason to conclude that the team working on EB might actually have no idea about gameplay balance or engine limitations. In fact, it might seemingly be more astute to conclude that the many gameplay enhancing inclusions that push the engine limitations too its limit and who have been working on the same mod for nigh on three years might actually know what they are talking about.

Perhaps you should be willing to consider that the difficulties inherent in translating the historical facts of a matter into a artificially limited game engine is one that is thoroughly complex and can lead to many differing views that all suffer from some flaw or another but that equally all offer different benefits that accurately simulate the matter at hand. Disagreeing with a certain decision that has been made does not entitle you or indeed give you any position to argue that the team behind that decision is intellectually vapid and hollow.

We don't mind if you disagree with us, indeed we actively encourage it with this very forum, but to step beyond that and insult us is unacceptable behaviour. I would rephrase future condemnations to something better representing the platform that you stand on, which certainly isn't on of objective truth.

Foot

Foot makes me regret playing EB at times...

**mcantu** · August 04, 2008, 12:23 PM

for the record i will state that RTR VII/TIC/FOE will not be using the short_pike attribute for overhand hoplites either. not including other game-play reasons, is it really believable that hoplites (most of which were farmers called to duty) would maintain absolute perfect formation while charging/fighting like the short_pike attribute gives?

the cohesion of a unit in formation can also be adjusted by its discipline level...

**Phalanx300** · August 04, 2008, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by mcantu

for the record i will state that RTR VII/TIC/FOE will not be using the short_pike attribute for overhand hoplites either. not including other game-play reasons, is it really believable that hoplites (most of which were farmers called to duty) would maintain absolute perfect formation while charging/fighting like the short_pike attribute gives?

the cohesion of a unit in formation can also be adjusted by its discipline level...

A perfect formation? No, but they would have occasional training. But let me tell you this, Hoplites didn't fought as ordinary spearmen, no matter how high or how low their training. Their warfare was ment to push and stab with the spear, which is what short_pike archieves.

In my eyes, short_pike is more Historical then the ordinary infantry formation. The only reason I see not to include short_pike might be balancing or gameplay reasons, but to say Historical reasons?

And I totally agree with you Scipio

.

**mcantu** · August 04, 2008, 01:15 PM

the spear and light_spear attributes can be used to give different pushing abilities...

**Phalanx300** · August 04, 2008, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by mcantu

the spear and light_spear attributes can be used to give different pushing abilities...

Yes, but Hoplites fought in a very dense formation, with interlocking shields. Just look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5hfiGdg6BE

Now go to page one of this tread the first post and look at the pictures, which looks the most like the video? The Short_Pike or the ordinary spear men. As I already said, the only reason of not including it could be gameplay or balancing reason.

**mcantu** · August 18, 2008, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Phalanx300

Yes, but Hoplites fought in a very dense formation, with interlocking shields. Just look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5hfiGdg6BE

Now go to page one of this tread the first post and look at the pictures, which looks the most like the video? The Short_Pike or the ordinary spear men. As I already said, the only reason of not including it could be gameplay or balancing reason.

short_pike does nothing to tighten up a formation or interlock shields...thats shieldwall

i believe that CA intended short_pike and long_pike to be used in phalanx units

**Phalanx300** · August 27, 2008, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by mcantu

short_pike does nothing to tighten up a formation or interlock shields...thats shieldwall

i believe that CA intended short_pike and long_pike to be used in phalanx units

Yes it does, have you actually tried out this mini-mod? It puts the units close together, yes shieldwall is better but we don't have this ability, and even if we would've had it then the AI would barely use it and its not fun if your the only one using a formation.

Yes I gues CA intended it that way but it turned out that other ways are possible to

.

**Marie Louise von Preussen** · August 04, 2008, 01:40 PM

Short_pike, for the matter, does not give a "perfect" formation to Hoplites while in fight. But it tries to make them stick together as long as possible. I was just battling Romans vs. KH in EB with the Phalanx mod and eventually the formation quite broke due to the fight, but even so there were small groups of the Hoplitai trying to stick together like Hoplites should do. I will post screens if you demand them.

The problem with light_spear and spear attributes is that Hoplitai seem to be more than eager for an individual fight, as the OP shows.

**Phalanx300** · August 04, 2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Scipio Barbatus

Short_pike, for the matter, does not give a "perfect" formation to Hoplites while in fight. But it tries to make them stick together as long as possible. I was just battling Romans vs. KH in EB with the Phalanx mod and eventually the formation quite broke due to the fight, but even so there were small groups of the Hoplitai trying to stick together like Hoplites should do. I will post screens if you demand them.

The problem with light_spear and spear attributes is that Hoplitai seem to be more than eager for an individual fight, as the OP shows.

Agreed, its not perfect, but its better then have them as ordinary spearmen.

**Capital** · August 27, 2008, 02:00 PM

Just got done reading this thread, I hear a reference to the org. but no explanation of where or what it is, I notice the first post hasn't been updated since late 2007, so im wondering where I can get this if supposedly its been upgraded to EB1.1, if I find it before someone tells me I will post it here:http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94341

... And awhile later I can't find anything on it (so frustrating using search engines)

**Dudar** · August 28, 2008, 07:06 PM

All phalanx lovers - here is the solution which will certainly satisfy all sides

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=188651

**duccio** · November 10, 2008, 10:40 AM

hi guys!
it's ok also with last version ofg EB 1.1 ?

thanks !!!!

**TWFanatic** · December 16, 2008, 10:02 AM

UPDATED FOR PATCH 1.2. See post # 1 for download.

And I apologize for previously neglecting this forum in favor of the org.

**c_kais3r** · July 12, 2010, 11:47 PM

Necro post here but i tried out a few things that are pretty interesting... The short_pike attribute works pretty good. But just giving the units back the phalanx ability makes them march the same as if they had the short_pike attribute, even though technically they still have light_spear.

Using phalanx mode like this actually works decently from what I've seen. I was wondering if anyone else has tried this? They still use an overhead stabbing motion... but work like vanilla phalanxes!