Lynching agents: bug or feature?

[Surgeon]

Recently I found out that if you surround an agent on all eight sides with armies/impassable terrain, and then move another army to stand on top of him, he will die for lack of anyplace to go (or, as I've come to call it, get lynched by the army). You can do this to any agents except spies and assassin, who apparently slip through the blockade. Another funny thing is that your relations with the Pope won't slip for killing an inquisitor in this manner.

So, I'm wondering if this is a bug, a feature, or an easy-way-out thing that CA had to put in for lack of a better option?

[Kahn]

Perhaps the armies are all turning around and backing into him like they did in Ninja Turtles 2: Secret of the Ooze.

Eh? yes?

Who's with me? Am I right, ladies?

[boerekovic]

Perhaps the armies are all turning around and backing into him like they did in Ninja Turtles 2: Secret of the Ooze.

Eh? yes?

Who's with me? Am I right, ladies?

You ARE right,as ninja turtles are Gods.

[Garnier]

It's a bug, and an exploit, just like 20 merchants in an army on one resource.

[Kahn]

It's a bug, and an exploit, just like 20 merchants in an army on one resource.

Now, now. THAT is a matter of much debate. Why do you have to go and bring it up on an unrelated thread?

But since you started it...

If you had a valuable resource back in the day, wouldn't you build a fort around it and bring in as many of your own merchants to maximize your profit.

It's logical, legitimate business tactics, and you can't tell me it isn't a tactic that hasn't been used time and time again.

You want an example? Diamond extraction companies. See for yourself. This is an African Diamond mine:



Do you see the man with the gun watching over the miners? He's protecting his resources from outsiders. You could draw a comparison between those miners and the merchants in the game. Should there only be one person mining in this picture? That would seem like a waste.

Are you telling me the Africans in this photo are using an Exploit?
Are you suggesting that we declare war on Africa?
No, good Sir. That is a racist thing to suggest and you should be ashamed of yourself.



Now somebody give me +rep for totally shutting that guy down.

FACE.

[FUNnBEER]

Now, now. THAT is a matter of much debate. Why do you have to go and bring it up on an unrelated thread?

But since you started it...

If you had a valuable resource back in the day, wouldn't you build a fort around it and bring in as many of your own merchants to maximize your profit.

It's logical, legitimate business tactics, and you can't tell me it isn't a tactic that hasn't been used time and time again.

You want an example? Diamond extraction companies. See for yourself. This is an African Diamond mine:



Do you see the man with the gun watching over the miners? He's protecting his resources from outsiders. You could draw a comparison between those miners and the merchants in the game. Should there only be one person mining in this picture? That would seem like a waste.

Are you telling me the Africans in this photo are using an Exploit?
Are you suggesting that we declare war on Africa?
No, good Sir. That is a racist thing to suggest and you should be ashamed of yourself.



Now somebody give me +rep for totally shutting that guy down.

FACE.

I agree with brother Kahn. Just because it is not mentioned in the manual does not mean it is not a legitiment tactic. Some times you must think outside the box, life is not written down in that manual and even if it was I would not live my life according to the ME:2 manual. And to suggest such a thing Metellus is just plain ridiculous, I do not care who you are you can not take away my God given Free Will.

And since when is war fought souly on legitiment tactics. Sure the French building trenches during WWI was a legitiment tactic, but ask them how well it worked during WWII. It seems that you are not only a racist but would also want us to lay down and let the Nazis roll over us with their tanks. Unacceptable!

[boerekovic]

Now, now. THAT is a matter of much debate. Why do you have to go and bring it up on an unrelated thread?

But since you started it...

If you had a valuable resource back in the day, wouldn't you build a fort around it and bring in as many of your own merchants to maximize your profit.

It's logical, legitimate business tactics, and you can't tell me it isn't a tactic that hasn't been used time and time again.

You want an example? Diamond extraction companies. See for yourself. This is an African Diamond mine:



Do you see the man with the gun watching over the miners? He's protecting his resources from outsiders. You could draw a comparison between those miners and the merchants in the game. Should there only be one person mining in this picture? That would seem like a waste.

Are you telling me the Africans in this photo are using an Exploit?
Are you suggesting that we declare war on Africa?
No, good Sir. That is a racist thing to suggest and you should be ashamed of yourself.



Now somebody give me +rep for totally shutting that guy down.

FACE.

I would like to, but i cant give you Rep
Also, i liked your example of the african businessman.

[Renco]

Now, now. THAT is a matter of much debate. Why do you have to go and bring it up on an unrelated thread?

But since you started it...

If you had a valuable resource back in the day, wouldn't you build a fort around it and bring in as many of your own merchants to maximize your profit.

It's logical, legitimate business tactics, and you can't tell me it isn't a tactic that hasn't been used time and time again.

You want an example? Diamond extraction companies. See for yourself. This is an African Diamond mine:



Do you see the man with the gun watching over the miners? He's protecting his resources from outsiders. You could draw a comparison between those miners and the merchants in the game. Should there only be one person mining in this picture? That would seem like a waste.

Are you telling me the Africans in this photo are using an Exploit?
Are you suggesting that we declare war on Africa?
No, good Sir. That is a racist thing to suggest and you should be ashamed of yourself.



Now somebody give me +rep for totally shutting that guy down.

FACE.

This statement is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. While I agree with the whole, protect your resouce business, I think drawing the comparison to real life situations is just wrong. In RL both parties can protect their assets with forts and so forth, but the AI in this GAME can not.

I think it should be a feature in the next TW game, building watchtowers, defensive forts and trading forts. Perhaps trading forts keep foreigners out but can't maintain a garrison and are open to free attack by enemies, whilst a defensive fort disables any trading to go on, a bit like the caslte/town distiction now. If the AI were programmed with an innate understanding of this then the game would rock. Until then I try to refrain from it as I see it as slightly underhanded.

Furthermore you say you put that guy down. How? He just said it was an exploit. YOU brought up the African reference. YOU then suggested he thought we should go to war with Africa, which had nothing to do with his origninal message. Then YOU had the balls to call him racist.
This is slightly flawed in itself as I highly doubt the africans mining are going to sell the fruits of their labor to anyone but the mining company that has hired them. This is like one merchant employing labor. In medieval I highly doubt that a slightly succesful merchant would degrade themselves like that in front of their peers, let alone good ones. They would hire labor to do that for them. So there is really only one mechant there, he just hires a bunch of people to gather and export the goods for him.

Now someone give me rep for pointing out obvious flaws in a pitiful grab for rep.

[Metellus]

Its a bug. Its not mentioned in the manual as a legitimate tactic anyway.

[Surgeon]

Wow, troll much? You've completely derailed the topic.

btw, just wondering - if it's a bug, why does it not work on spies and assassins? CA should've made all agents be able to escape this way, because otherwise it can make the game rather unchallenging: foreign merchant eating all your own merchants? Okay, just lynch him! Foreign priest/imam making order impossible or maintain? Okay, just lynch him! Inquisitor taking a whack at all your generals? Okay, just lynch him! Hm, maybe some mod can fix this.

[Garnier]

Or just don't lynch him.. its an exploit.

As to the stacking merchants on a single resource, that is not how merchants were intended to work.

[Kahn]

As to the stacking merchants on a single resource, that is not how merchants were intended to work.

All that argument from me and you toss out half a thought in response?

I think I won that one.

[Vor]

Or just don't lynch him.. its an exploit.

As to the stacking merchants on a single resource, that is not how merchants were intended to work.

Once again.. why didn't they fix it it one of the patches of the expansion then?

[FUNnBEER]

Once again.. why didn't they fix it it one of the patches of the expansion then?

The reason why they did not fix it is because it is a brilliant idea. If you think differently then you a communist, a filthy filthy communist.

[Vor]

If it was a bug I'm sure they would have fixed it in one of the patches.. or the expansion..

I use it now and then, but normally its by mistake when I'm maneuvering armies around the holy lands and an Islamic Priest (can't remember the name.. help me out?) or an assassin is in the way and ends up getting squashed.

[FUNnBEER]

I say bug or not, it should be used. If you have low level assassins with like 5% chance of killing a priest you are stuck with him/or her (see post about woman pope) on your land screwing with you. I will take anyway I can kill one of thsoe S.O.Bs. Especially Inquisitors who all should be sent straight to Hell. Where they will eat NOT but buring hot coals, and drink NOT but buring hot cola.

[Captain Spanky]

I side with Garnier in this argument. I think it's an exploit. Sure, comparisons can be made with real life instances in which there is such protection of a resource. However, one cannot define a bug as an unintended problem which in inhibits gameplay. A bug does not have to be a negative feature, the simple fact is that nobody reports bugs that dont matter because, well, they dont matter.

The above argument is hardly fully comprehensive anyway. Who's saying the merchant cash trick is a good or bad thing? Nobody, that's who. It's simply a matter of opinion. Some like it, some don't. One thing we can all agree on is that this was not intended by the developers so must be classified as a bug.

Now I'm not against this exploit, I use it all the time, I just realise its a bug.

On topic now: I think the killing agents via surrounding is an exploit, so I don't do it. However, I think its fair play to do this to an enemy army. They are forced to fight as they have no retreat path, and if they lose they all die. This to me seems to be what would happen if a force were actually surrounded at the time.

[miccofl]

In regard to the agent "lynching" I personally don't regard it as an exploit. I do consider it a waste of good manpower; surely there must be a more efficient way to off the offender. Due to my experience with our democracy game I can also understand the opposing view as there is no chance for escape (check the link in my sig for more info on the democracy game.)

Now the merchant exploit (yep, I called it an exploit) is exactly that. The game was designed so that merchants would be vulnerable to other merchants. Put them in a fort or with a general and you take that away; clearly and by definition a game mechanics exploit.

[Renco]

To the issue of Agent Lyniching, I usually restrict it to opposing religeous priests, as I can't trial them for heresy. They are preaching a vastly different religion in Christian lands, when people were trailled for heresy for studying weight's differences to mass. Come on. In Muslim coutnries people were, up untill 1950 or something, executed for homosexuality, let alone preaching some other religion.

As for Spies and Assasins, don't they have the stealth thing, so it makes sense kind of that they could make themselves scarce when in danger of discovery. Maybe a superior spy would make sure they couldn't disapear?

[Metellus]

I agree with Renco. The AI can't use either the Merchant Cash Trick or the Agent Lynching tactics, so they are exploits, therefore I don't use them.

And to suggest such a thing Metellus is just plain ridiculous, I do not care who you are you can not take away my God given Free Will.

I wouldn't dream of taking away your God given Free Will. However the title of the thread is just asking us to comment on whether agent lynching is a bug or a feature. Do what thou wilt.