why javelins are so worthless?

[Marcus Publius]

And how to change that.EB is wonderful but this thing i think not historical , because pilum was very useful weapon and actually killed

Maybe EB creators will consider my opinion and make that happen in EB 1.1 patch

[Schwertmeister]

no.

[Ludens]

All throwing weapons in EB are somewhat weak, but I think this is mainly because historically they didn't do much against shielded, formed up units. Even the pila seems to have been ineffective against Macedonian phalanxes, yet they have only a small shield. If you want to use pila effectively, you should use them against vulnerable targets (unarmoured horses, unshielded units, units that are running or displaying their unshielded side).

[CirdanDharix]

All throwing weapons in EB are somewhat weak, but I think this is mainly because historically they didn't do much against shielded, formed up units. Even the pila seems to have been ineffective against Macedonian phalanxes, yet they have only a small shield. If you want to use pila effectively, you should use them against vulnerable targets (unarmoured horses, unshielded units, units that are running or displaying their unshielded side).

The pilum is usually listed as one of the reasons the Romans did defeat the Macedonians, actually. Similarly, peltasts were very effective against both Macedonian pike-phalanxes and the older hoplite phalanxes. In fact, there is a distinct change in the way Greek warfare was conducted after peltasts became widespread. The Roman legionnaires weren't javelin-proof either; see what happened to them at Teutoberg forest. Ultimately, of course, the best missile weapon was the bow until the invention of fire-arms (and then early gunpowder weapons became dominant not because they were more effective than bows and crossbows--they weren't--but because they delivered the best value for money); but javelins and throwing spears could also be quite effective, and were nothing to scoff at.

[Ludens]

The pilum is usually listed as one of the reasons the Romans did defeat the Macedonians, actually. Similarly, peltasts were very effective against both Macedonian pike-phalanxes and the older hoplite phalanxes.

I recall reading that the Roman pila did not make much of an impression on the Macedonian phalanx at Cynocephalus, and the legionaries throwing them were veterans of the second Punic war. Similarly, I think the peltast's effectiveness had more to do with mobility than with their ability to gun down hoplites from the front. However, I quite agree that they could be effective, not just necessarily against formed-up troops.

[chenkai11]

javelins is very effective against elephants.

[blood_reaver]

I think that javelins are useful, IF you know how to use them. I prefer to to use them to either distract the enemy, disorganize enemy phalanxes, or support my shock infantry by using them to attack the enemy flanks.

[Mathias]

It is very balanced as it is now. If the javelins are too strong then you can just put your units to fire at will (almost all units have javelins or other throwing spears) and you will destroy the enemy line even before the melee. As you can imagine, that is no fun. The battle AI is bad enough as it is, if we are not to give the human players even more to exploit.
And the historical accuracy must also be considered. It is true that a volley of pila did disrupt the enemy charge, but please tell me how two armies of some thousand troops can fight eachother and one side only suffers 200 casualties if the lines throw spears at eachother before they clash, if javelins were more dangerous than they are represented as in EB?

[Cronis]

The pilum was meant more to disrupt and either render a shield useless outright or burden the shield bearer enough to need to drop it. The pilum's true effectiveness was not its ability to kill, but rather to reduces the enemies efficiency by a large amount. What good is a lightly armored foe without a shield against a very well equipped legionary?

[starXdiaMoo]

As many others specified, javelins including pilla can be very effective if used properly. Try showering your enemy whilst they are tired, on their unshielded side or even better in the flanks. Something that also helps is firing against your enemy if you are on top of a hill, or just on elevated terrain.

[jabarto]

As many others specified, javelins including pilla can be very effective if used properly. Try showering your enemy whilst they are tired, on their unshielded side or even better in the flanks. Something that also helps is firing against your enemy if you are on top of a hill, or just on elevated terrain.

Definitely. In my Karthadast campaign, Numidian skirmishers routinely save my hide from the Ptolemaic phalanxes. I wouldn't use them against many other troops, but javlineers are very good at damaging phalanxes if you can get behind them.

[Yura92]

i wouldnt say worthless there just kinda short ranged and horsed archers kick there asses as quick as hell lol

[starXdiaMoo]

Short-ranged? Whoa, I'm afraid I will have to disagree on this matter, my friend. They throw their spears quite far, because if the team decided to reduce the distanse fired by javelinmen they wouldn't have time to throw even 1 volley upon a charging enemy. No, they certainly do not fire javelins in a short range. Not everyone throws javelins as modern-day athletes do I must tell you...

[MathiasOfAthens]

Caesar routinely spoke of his legion's use of pilums during battles, the casualties he reported however, were greater on gallic or celtic forces than on roman forces during the civil wars. If I remember correctly pilum casualties during one of the civil war battles resulted on less than ten deaths.
________
BOX VAPORIZERS

[Marcus Publius]

Caesar routinely spoke of his legion's use of pilums during battles, the casualties he reported however, were greater on gallic or celtic forces than on roman forces during the civil wars. If I remember correctly pilum casualties during one of the civil war battles resulted on less than ten deaths.

Yeah you are right i heard this thing too

[starXdiaMoo]

Yeah you are right i heard this thing too

You heared it? Mabe you mean you read it somewhere... Anyway, the thing is, as effective as the pilum may be against shields and lightly armoured soldiers, you can't possibly believe those javelins could just rip phalanxes apart or cripple armoured units like in vanilla RTW! I mean, 17 missile attack for the Praetorians?! Give me a break...

[Marcus Publius]

You heared it? Mabe you mean you read it somewhere... Anyway, the thing is, as effective as the pilum may be against shields and lightly armoured soldiers, you can't possibly believe those javelins could just rip phalanxes apart or cripple armoured units like in vanilla RTW! I mean, 17 missile attack for the Praetorians?! Give me a break...

Yes i think i heard it from my friend he is know alot about history read a lot of history books

[starXdiaMoo]

Yes i think i heard it from my friend he is know alot about history read a lot of history books

Ok, I didn't mean to offend you, btw

[Arutima]

i went ahead and changed my desc_unit and gave every javelins the armor piercing attribute (the pilum already have it)

in some test battles, i noted that javelines are really mortal against non armored targets, and very worthless, when used from the front and left against heavy infantry units and phalangites, just like normal Eb, wihtout the changes.

But, the difference is, with armor the piercing attribute, is that around 15-20 men die from one volley of javelins , when fires into their back, compared to the usual 1-5 , wihtout the ap attribute.

[campesino]

i think that you could use a plate armor and if i trow a javaline in your back it will kill you, or at least you wont be able to pull it out...many times in rtw soldiers are visible hit by a javelin and nothing happens to them...when the should die jajaja