Mounted Longbowmen

[Kylan271]

In reference to the ENGLISH Mounted Longbowmen is there anyway they can be included in the normal game without having to use 'create-unit' cheats?

They are listed in the desc_unit stats but no inclusion in desc_building stats or even as mercenaries..so they can't appear in the campaign as with other faction units.

:hmmm:I am not up on moddling so does anyone have any ideas on how to include this unit as per normal English faction unit in the campaign? I think CA forgot the link between building roster and unit data with these.

("Lusted" is rolling his eyes...heh)

Thanks

Phillip

[Evolution]

("Lusted" is rolling his eyes...heh)

lol, wasn't Lusted just a tester? You say it as if he was the director


Look for a tutorial in the MOD shop, within the Medieval 2 section. Should have made this topic in there , I could tell you how to do it but I don't think it would make much sense. Check the tutorials in the Mod Shop.

[JonR]

Try this in export_desc_buildings.txt:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

}
marksmans_range castle requires factions { denmark, hre, france, england, egypt, turks, moors, southern_european, }
{
capability
{
recruit_pool "Mounted Longbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, }
recruit_pool "Dismounted Longbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, }
recruit_pool "Aventurier" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { france, }
recruit_pool "Mounted Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { hre, denmark, spain, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, }
recruit_pool "Granadine CB Cav" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { moors, }
recruit_pool "Yeoman Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, }
recruit_pool "Noble Highland Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { scotland, }
recruit_pool "Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { france, denmark, hungary, }
recruit_pool "Pavise Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { hre, spain, portugal, papal_states, sicily, }
recruit_pool "Genoese Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { milan, }
recruit_pool "Venetian Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { venice, }
recruit_pool "Lithuanian Cavalry" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { poland, }
recruit_pool "Byzantine Guard Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { byzantium, }
recruit_pool "ME Peasant Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { moors, }
recruit_pool "Nubian Archers" 1 0.7 6 1 requires factions { egypt, }
recruit_pool "Ottoman Infantry" 1 0.7 6 1 requires factions { turks, }
recruit_pool "Longbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, }
recruit_pool "Highland Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { scotland, }
recruit_pool "Peasant Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { france, hre, spain, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states, }
recruit_pool "Norse Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { denmark, }
recruit_pool "Sicilian Muslim Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { sicily, }
recruit_pool "Lithuanian Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { poland, }
recruit_pool "Bosnian Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { hungary, }
recruit_pool "Trebizond Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { byzantium, }
recruit_pool "Desert Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { moors, egypt, }
recruit_pool "Turkish Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { turks, timurids, }
recruit_pool "Mongol Foot Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { mongols, }
recruit_pool "Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, scotland, france, hre, denmark, spain, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states, Normans, Saxons, }
recruit_pool "S Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { sicily, hungary, byzantium, }
recruit_pool "EE Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { poland, }
recruit_pool "EE Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 1 requires factions { russia, }
recruit_pool "Sudanese Javelinmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { moors, }
recruit_pool "ME Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { egypt, turks, mongols, timurids, }
}
material wooden
construction 5
cost 9600
settlement_min large_city
upgrades
{
}

[TWoxy]

They're are worth putting in, but you'd probably be better off with another unit of Retinue Longbowmen. Although, admittedly, Mounted Longbowmen do have mobility.

[Oberhut]

.. and are completely wacko - I mean try shooting a six foot 100lbs + bow from the back of a horse - would only make sense if they dismounted too shoot.

[Erwin Rommel]

thats as wacko as trying to shoot with an aquibusier while horseback!(coz the recoil will dismount you, recoil is pretty powerful)
no wait ........i think not

[Renco]

thats as wacko as trying to shoot with an aquibusier while horseback!(coz the recoil will dismount you, recoil is pretty powerful)
no wait ........i think not

To that end, you think the reloading of a gun on horse back would be precaurious enough, not to mention the worlds first guns. Anyone see the smirk on some guys face as he takes aim on a peasant unit, only to be removed along with any matter in his upper body as his gun backfired. That would be almost as satisfying as capturing an entire family, then releasing them, then catching them again and executing all in one turn. And that's pretty satisfying.

[Oberhut]

While using an Arquebuse from horseback might be impractical - using a Longbow from hb is impossible.
Historically speaking the 'horse arquebusers' mostly dismounted in Battle - and where thus the first Dragoons ( which where horsed infantery up to about 1800 )

[Grimmy]

I've seen demonstrations of the Japanese longbow being used from horseback. There are even competitions for style and accuracy held in some areas of Japan to this day. So a longbow can be fired from horseback.

The Mongol bow has as high or higher a pull weight as the English longbow. So a heavy weight pull bow can also be used from horseback.

I have no clue if there ever was a real mounted longbow troop used in medieval war. Or if there was a use of longbowmen on horseback used as more of a mounted infantry (ride horse to the fight, dismount to fight) used. But neither of those options would have been impossible.

[Oberhut]

I've seen demonstrations of the Japanese longbow being used from horseback. There are even competitions for style and accuracy held in some areas of Japan to this day. So a longbow can be fired from horseback.

The Japanese Longbow or Yumi not only has a much lower draw weight ( as an average ) but is also formed asymmetrically - and therefore much better to handle from horseback.

The Mongol bow has as high or higher a pull weight as the English longbow. So a heavy weight pull bow can also be used from horseback.

I would want to know where you have this information from 'cause everything I find points to the average Longbows drawing weight being at least 50% higher then that of the Mongolian horsebow.
Be it as it may it is the length of a Longbow that makes it impractical to use from horseback - if it's not assymetrical that is.

Therefore

I have no clue if there ever was a real mounted longbow troop used in medieval war. Or if there was a use of longbowmen on horseback used as more of a mounted infantry (ride horse to the fight, dismount to fight) used. But neither of those options would have been impossible.

is not entirely true.

[boerekovic]

Could i get a way to Add all those "Hidden units" into the Game?

[Black Prince IV]

The only other hidden units I noticed were the Wagon Forts for Poland and Hungary and the Gulay Gurod for Russia. I just modded them in and when I tried them the captain would dissapear and some units would too. Plus, the units heads would converge on one point in the sky. If you wanna mod them in go for it but try them on custom battle first.

[Georgy Zhukov]

u can use create_unit cheat, Ive created an entire army that fought against the mongul hordes and won.

[Kylan271]

Appreciate the data.

My reference to "Lusted" is that he is a respected MTW2 expert I must say..so I am joking giving the poor guy more work from a 'newbie' to solve.

The "Create Unit" cheat is not the result I seek,just I feel CA has made an error in excluding a unit from faction roster,just trying to solve it. I know the cheat though.

Long Bows from Horseback I have no historical data,except Composite and as mentioned above japanese warriors. Yet here is 'English' and even French with them...at best western standards you would expect Composite Bows,but I am not sure medieval wise-western europe? Long Bows from horseback is not just in using them,but carrying them?

I am not sure the mods area so I listed this in general discussion,but thanks for the pointer.

I appreciate the input. I was thinking this or as with French,Military Academy??? What is more 'realistic' in regards to the unit rarity or not,over my wish as a player?

Try this in export_desc_buildings.txt:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

}
marksmans_range castle requires factions { denmark, hre, france, england, egypt, turks, moors, southern_european, }
{
capability
{
recruit_pool "Mounted Longbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, }
recruit_pool "Dismounted Longbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, }
recruit_pool "Aventurier" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { france, }
recruit_pool "Mounted Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { hre, denmark, spain, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, }
recruit_pool "Granadine CB Cav" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { moors, }
recruit_pool "Yeoman Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, }
recruit_pool "Noble Highland Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { scotland, }
recruit_pool "Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { france, denmark, hungary, }
recruit_pool "Pavise Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { hre, spain, portugal, papal_states, sicily, }
recruit_pool "Genoese Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { milan, }
recruit_pool "Venetian Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { venice, }
recruit_pool "Lithuanian Cavalry" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { poland, }
recruit_pool "Byzantine Guard Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { byzantium, }
recruit_pool "ME Peasant Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { moors, }
recruit_pool "Nubian Archers" 1 0.7 6 1 requires factions { egypt, }
recruit_pool "Ottoman Infantry" 1 0.7 6 1 requires factions { turks, }
recruit_pool "Longbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, }
recruit_pool "Highland Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { scotland, }
recruit_pool "Peasant Crossbowmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { france, hre, spain, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states, }
recruit_pool "Norse Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { denmark, }
recruit_pool "Sicilian Muslim Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { sicily, }
recruit_pool "Lithuanian Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { poland, }
recruit_pool "Bosnian Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { hungary, }
recruit_pool "Trebizond Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { byzantium, }
recruit_pool "Desert Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { moors, egypt, }
recruit_pool "Turkish Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { turks, timurids, }
recruit_pool "Mongol Foot Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { mongols, }
recruit_pool "Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { england, scotland, france, hre, denmark, spain, portugal, milan, venice, papal_states, Normans, Saxons, }
recruit_pool "S Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { sicily, hungary, byzantium, }
recruit_pool "EE Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { poland, }
recruit_pool "EE Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 1 requires factions { russia, }
recruit_pool "Sudanese Javelinmen" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { moors, }
recruit_pool "ME Peasant Archers" 1 0.7 6 0 requires factions { egypt, turks, mongols, timurids, }
}
material wooden
construction 5
cost 9600
settlement_min large_city
upgrades
{
}

[Oberhut]

Composite Bows are very sensitive too wett weather - and where therefore never extensively used in ( wet ) western Europe.

Longbows are simply to long to use them from horseback ( the horse would get in your way ) - and where only extensively used in Wales and England.
Other European nations never had the amount of trained men needed to field a sizable force of Longbowmen.

[Armatus]

Longbows are simply to long to use them from horseback ( the horse would get in your way ) - and where only extensively used in Wales and England.
Other European nations never had the amount of trained men needed to field a sizable force of Longbowmen.

I've seen it done. I don't recall the name of the documentary, but it was demonstrated by Mike Loads not saying that longbows were ever extensively used in this fashion but it's certainly a possibility especially for those well trained for the draw who could ride.

[Evolution]

Elephant Mounted Longbowmen with rockets for ammo. Now that sounds Medieval.

[Oberhut]

To draw them you would have to hold them slanted or diagonal - which would in turn severely hamper your accuracy.
Also you would definitely have to dismount to string it.

[Armatus]

To draw them you would have to hold them slanted or diagonal - which would in turn severely hamper your accuracy.
Also you would definitely have to dismount to string it.

The way it was demonstrated the archer or Mike (whoever was on the horse) drew and shot while mounting up to ride in retreat (think Parthian shot) this was one hypothesis for a particular battle with a narrow entry to the field, I want to say Crecy but don't quote me. The question they were trying to answer is how did they loose so many arrow into the French knights prior to engagement. I really need to watch this again to be clear on what it was they were trying to accomplish and exactly how they did it, but never the less this was one thing they tested riding and firing with the long bow.

I don't think mounted archery was intended as a practical tactic for the long bow. Most things CA does with special units have a shred of inspiration from somewhere they probably watched this particular documentary and thought cool! an *easter egg!*

Others would include the Greek flame thrower, which to my knowledge only occurred from a warship and the facts on that are sketchy or the cannon mounted elephants. These things were are done or possible to a certain extent just never became the norm (that we know of) well aside from elephant cannons which were favored by the Moguls in India, then again Timur Lenk or better known in the west as 'Tamer the Lame' employed wide assortment of troops within his domains pulled from many cultures, hence elephant cannons for the Timirids.

If they really wanted a cool easter egg unit it should have been the Muslim fire warriors

[Oberhut]

Touchy - are you?

this was one hypothesis for a particular battle with a narrow entry to the field, I want to say Crecy but don't quote me.

Well after I had read that I thought you think that maybe mounted LBs where used in Crêcy.

That's what a I wrote in my second post.

Then I proceed with telling you that yes I think it is possible ( if somewhat impractical ) to use a Longbow from horseback - but not very likely that it was ever used that way. That was not in direct answer to your post ( like you write, you never statet that it was used this way historically ) but as a generall statement about the unlikeliness of such a unit having an historical background.
Then I get:

who are you arguing with? or do you just like to have the last word? reread what I said

:hmmm:

well whatever ...

Fact is: a lot of Longbowmen where mounted ( from tim eto time when doing forays or using the Chevauchée- but did not fight from their horses.
Unfortunately there is no way in MTW to make your men dismount ( which is a bummer especially with the knights ).