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  1. #1
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    Default "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    From today's Observer.

    And no, not that [user]enoch[/user]!

    David Cameron was drawn into a row over race last night after a candidate in a high-profile Parliamentary seat praised Enoch Powell for his notorious 'rivers of blood' speech, which warned that Britain was 'literally mad' to allow widespread immigration.

    Days after Cameron was praised by the head of the Equality Commission for tackling the issue of immigration in a non-racial way, Labour called on the Tory leader to remove Nigel Hastilow as a prospective Conservative candidate for declaring that Powell was 'right'.

    Article continues
    Communities Secretary Hazel Blears told The Observer: 'It's not unreasonable to be concerned about the impact of immigration, but it is unacceptable to say Enoch Powell was right. David Cameron should reconsider his support for this candidate.'

    Hastilow has been summoned to a meeting today with Caroline Spelman, the Tory chairman, to explain his column in the Wolverhampton Express and Star newspaper in which he complained about how immigration has changed Britain and placed great strains on housing and public services.

    A Conservative party spokesman said: 'Candidates of all parties should take great care when discussing what can be a sensitive and even inflammatory issue. Politicians and those seeking to be politicians have a responsibility in this area that they must observe. Mr Hastilow has been required to see the party chairman tomorrow, where he will be told this in clear terms.'

    The row broke out after Hastilow, who last year accused Muslims of using terror attacks to 'issue demands' for their own bank holidays and schools, wrote of special treatment offered to immigrants. He wrote that 'we [Britain] roll out the red carpet for foreigners while leaving the locals to fend for themselves'. Hastilow, a former editor of the Birmingham Post, added: 'When you ask most people in the Black Country what the single biggest problem facing the country is, most say immigration. Many insist: "Enoch Powell was right".

    'Enoch, once MP for Wolverhampton South-West, was sacked from the Conservative front bench and marginalised politically for his 1968 "rivers of blood" speech, warning that uncontrolled immigration would change our country irrevocably. He was right. It has changed dramatically.'

    Cameron was irritated by the behaviour of Hastilow, who will contest the marginal seat of Halesowen and Rowley Regis, which the Tories must win if they are to regain power, after he mounted a strong defence of his article. 'It is in line with Conservative policy,' he told The Observer. 'Uncontrolled immigration will do this country great damage. In the last 10 years we have had more or less uncontrolled immigration.'

    But Hastilow won strong support from his local Tory association. 'Most certainly, yes,' said Mary Docker, chairman of the Halesowen and Rowley Regis association, when asked by The Observer if she would stand by Hastilow. 'He is a down-to-earth man who talks to people and doesn't talk at them. He is representative of the views of many Black Country people.'

    But some of Hastilow's language may be regarded as controversial. He opens his article with the story of 'a granny' who has had to house her single-parent daughter and two young children because all council housing has been taken by immigrants. He writes: 'They have more or less given up complaining about the way we roll out the red carpet for foreigners while leaving the locals to fend for themselves.'

    This is not the first time Hastilow has strayed into this area. Last year his blog said that Muslims 'are seizing the opportunity not just to reject the idea of singling out potential terrorists for special attention, they're using the latest crisis to demand their own bank holidays, their own schools, even their own laws. They want an Islamic state within a state.'
    For more about the "Rivers of Blood" speech, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech

    So, your opinions on this?
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Well, it wasn't people from Newcastle blowing themselves up on buses and trains, and it isn't the Cornish shooting each other in London...

  3. #3

    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Quote Originally Posted by The Super Pope View Post
    Well, it wasn't people from Newcastle blowing themselves up on buses and trains, and it isn't the Cornish shooting each other in London...
    But this nutter from Yately planted a fair few bombs in my manor before he got caught.



    These twins didn't need guns, knives and skilful use of pliers sufficed to "gain the respect" of East London.



    One of many Poll Tax Riots




    Mmmmm, :hmmm: they are not from Cornwall or Newcastle, so what exactly is your point?

    The central thrust of Powell's speech was not immigration per se, but rather, whether white people should have the right to discriminate against those of another race. It was a response to Labour's proposal to outlaw racial discrimination in housing. The key line is this "This does not mean the immigrant and his descendants should be elevated into a privileged or special class or that the citizen should be denied his right to discriminate in the management of his own affairs between one fellow-citizen and another or that he should be subjected to an inquisition as to his reasons and motives for behaving in one lawful manner rather than another". He also directly referred to a woman who refused to let rooms to black people. He alleges, strangely enough, that she received abuse from them as a result (hiow dare they!).

    I recall hearing a very similar and equally appaling speech by his successor, Nick Budgen at Wolverhampton Grammar School. (I trust that nowadays it complies with RRA 2000). Again the main thrust was this it was the white man's right to deny business, goods and services to whoever he or she sees fit. It almost put me off Conservatism for life.

    There were undoubtly some short term gains for the Conservative Party as Powellites from all parties switched to the Tories but;

    - it is now inconceivable that any responsible politician can advocate discrimination in any form in the 21st century. Unfortunatley the Conservative party is saddled with a rump of increasingly elderly racists, who you would have thought were long gone, but then they show up like those Japanese soldiers found in the years following the War.

    - Black and Asian Ethnic minorities in the UK contain some of the most conservative ( small c) individuals on Earth. Every time someone like this mouths off, Labour gets the default vote.

    - Demographics can do wonderful things. Nick Budgen was doomed once the ethnic minorities formed 23% of his constituency. They would hardly come out for him.

    - The most important point. Hastilow is, or I suppose was, a public servant. Could he inspire confidence that he provide everyone, regardless of background, fair and impartial treatment?

    Cameron was right to let him go. He's got an election to win and policies to devise (for Gordon to steal). He doesn't need this uniformed bigotry.

    Anyway, if Mr Hastilow is concerned about current immigration from the EU, what precisely is wrong with all these people from Central Europe coming here, having the same culture, taking up jobs ?
    Last edited by mongrel; November 04, 2007 at 04:08 PM.
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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Because comparing gangsters to an immigrant people who fight an ideological war makes sense

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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Quote Originally Posted by The Super Pope View Post
    Because comparing gangsters to an immigrant people who fight an ideological war makes sense
    his point might be that theres already some amounts of violence in this country already, so why not just let more violence in?

    fantastic logic, and also something labour's been following for some time - literally letting in the scum of Europe (and much of the world) into the country; roamanian racists, turkish wife beaters... and so on.

  6. #6

    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Carach

    Notwithstanding Britain's libel laws, could you care to name these unfortunate individuals?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Super Pope View Post
    Because comparing gangsters to an immigrant people who fight an ideological war makes sense
    Was your telly switched off when Brixton, Brick Lane and a gay pub in SoHo were bombed in quick sucession? If a Nazi nail-bombing campaign does not fit the description of an ideological war, I don't know what does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    his point might be that theres already some amounts of violence in this country already, so why not just let more violence in?

    fantastic logic, and also something labour's been following for some time - literally letting in the scum of Europe (and much of the world) into the country; roamanian racists, turkish wife beaters... and so on.
    Not my point at all . I just would like the debate to be confined to the merits, or otherwise of jettisoning this total waste of space. Your points and those of Super Pope add nothing whatsoever to the debate. You don't like foreigners? Big deal. Such views are two a penny. I don't like West Bromwich Albion, but I don't bore people with my views beyond the terraces of Molineux. That the Conservative party revive itself, that is of vast importance. If Cameron gets it right, no more Gordon Brown and New Labour.
    Last edited by Valus; November 05, 2007 at 08:22 AM. Reason: double post
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    well if things continue at their current level their will be "blood" think about it.

    limited school places, limited houseing (thats affordable), limited social services and public services.

    it wont affect me, or you. we are middle class brits, but the lower class brits who number in their millions are going to feel hard done by, their kids will grow up with a hatred for poles, and everyone else and before you know it, blood!

    ive already seen a group of youths on cctv in the local news beat up 2 poles for "taking their parents council homes"

    their is ALOT of tension in alot of areas already, i dont think we can take much more, we need to put the breaks on and allow those who are here to settle into the country before taking anymore. lets be honest allowing so many to come in harms them as well as us, how on earth are local governments ment to provide translators or english lessions? we need a break to allow things to relax a little

  8. #8

    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    The ability to control immigration is a key part of being a nation-state.

    If a group of people who live in a certain country (nation-state) who call themselves "British" or whatever are unable or not allowed to determine the rules under which alien peoples can enter that country, then why bother being a country at all?

    In theory, countries represent the realm, culture, traditions, and history of one or more groups of people. The UK is a good example with the Scots, English, Irish, Welsh etc living under the banner of "Greater Britain". If other people with greatly different cultures, traditions and backgrounds move en masse to another country without any kind of control, then the original country will be swamped and forever changed.

    Previously when this kind of mass movement occurred it was seen to be an invasion to be fought against in the air, on the beaches and in the streets. Now apparently, countries like the UK aren't allowed to protect their original inhabitants. Instead, they have to accept any Tom, Dick or Harry who wants to use British taxpayer funding to claim housing, welfare and other benefits, while simultaneously destroying the original culture and traditions of the UK. Some even do this openly by planting bombs on trains.

    For those people in the UK and elsewhere who are concerned by uncontrolled immigration, I suggest you pack your bags and move to some other country like the Ukraine or maybe Saudi....but note, they may not let you in.

    Of course, opinions like this are not allowed to be voiced in the modern liberal state because they in fact challenge modern liberalism. Ironic isn't it?

    Lozza12

  9. #9

    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    @ Lozza.

    If I recall the Poles were kind enough to provide an Armoured division,some infantry an Airborne Brigade and a few pilots in the conflict you mention. In fact the Poles rescued our boys at Arnhem. Some gratitude is in order.

    Tne bombers you mention have no connection with the recent wave of immigration. They were either born here or were granted asylum.

    And precisely what difference is there between white central Europeans, such as Poles and white ex-central Europeans such as the English other than the possession of an unpronouncable surname.?
    Last edited by mongrel; November 05, 2007 at 01:08 AM.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

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  10. #10

    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    A simple thing everybody should be able to agree with; if a man is so unable to guage public feeling that he actually publiclly cites Enoch Powell's speech like this he has absolutely no business sitting in Parliament.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Super Pope View Post
    Well, it wasn't people from Newcastle blowing themselves up on buses and trains, and it isn't the Cornish shooting each other in London...
    And it is not Indian, Pakistanni or Polish people that make me hold onto my wallet as I walk past them.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    And it is not Indian, Pakistanni or Polish people that make me hold onto my wallet as I walk past them.
    pakistanni's stole my wallet once.

    skanky ****s.

    and thus we have established why i am a racist nazi yes?

  12. #12

    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    pakistanni's stole my wallet once.

    skanky ****s.

    and thus we have established why i am a racist nazi yes?
    Quote me suggesting anything of the sort.

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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Quote me suggesting anything of the sort.
    was a joke, never said u were implying i was racist.

    was more directed at those that do call me racist scum and all that.

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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Syron, Syron, Syron ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Syron View Post
    being a chav has nothing to do with being white.
    Obviously. No one said otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by YOU AGEN
    I live in central manchester, probably more black and mixed-race chav's than white.
    I hope you don't think this is representative of the entire United Kingdom!

    In fact i'll think you'll find most of chav "culture" borrows heavily from afro-american culture.
    Perhaps. Sure. Chavs are well known for being racially friendly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syron View Post
    Actually a mate of mine was mugged recently, the mugger was black. I'm sure you'd have been alright though, he wasn't white british.
    So? I've never been mugged. Presumably by your logic this means muggers don't exist? :hmmm:

    anyway, not my problem you are bigoted against whites.
    I'm sure that this wild accusation of being a 'bigot' is doing a lot to help your cause.

    Way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syron View Post
    oh stop the spin, that's clearly not what i'm saying. I'm rebuking you for your racial profiling of who could be a mugger and who isn't.

    I think it's pretty clear to me and to everyone else here you are being just as racist as someone who says all blacks are muggers is.
    Hmm. I can't say I see any racial profiling; did he say something along the lines of "muggers are most likely to be white, so be on guard when a white person walks by"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Syron View Post
    You were clearly being racist, that's hardly spin.

    you on the other hand accused me of stating all blacks were criminals (via the use of sarcasm) to deflect from your racism. That is spin.
    Quite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    was more directed at those that do call me racist scum and all that.
    Who, presumably, are too numerous to exist and do it too often for you to provide a link.
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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Quote Originally Posted by Carach View Post
    was a joke, never said u were implying i was racist.

    was more directed at those that do call me racist scum and all that.
    Racist scum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    And no, not that [user]enoch[/user]!
    O'RLY?
    Last edited by King Edward III; November 05, 2007 at 11:18 AM.
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    - King Edward III, 1339

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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    In terms of the conservative party he had to go to tow the party's center-grabbing line at the elections.

    That being said it's a sad state of affairs. The whole point of multi-party government is the fact that there are different ideas about. You get into the state you have now where those who get offended at everything form the "centre-ground" which every party then seeks to take causing apathy in the public when the wide variety of their views are completely ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    And it is not Indian, Pakistanni or Polish people that make me hold onto my wallet as I walk past them.
    Who does?
    Last edited by Syron; November 05, 2007 at 03:46 AM.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Chavs. Who are almost uniformly white.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Chavs. Who are almost uniformly white.
    being a chav has nothing to do with being white. I live in central manchester, probably more black and mixed-race chav's than white.

    In fact i'll think you'll find most of chav "culture" borrows heavily from afro-american culture.
    Member and acting regent of the House of Kazak Borispavlovgrozny
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  19. #19

    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Haha. Sure.

  20. #20
    Syron's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: "Enoch was right" claim sparks major race row

    Actually a mate of mine was mugged recently, the mugger was black. I'm sure you'd have been alright though, he wasn't white british.

    anyway, not my problem you are bigoted against whites.
    Member and acting regent of the House of Kazak Borispavlovgrozny
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