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  1. #1

    Default Suggestions for upcoming versions

    I've been playing RTR for about a month now and have been most pleased with it in comparison to vanilla Rome, but there are some things that atleast i'd like to see change.

    Spies
    Spies are in my opinion inherently too powerful in the game for two reasons:

    First reasons being the chance to open city gates which opens up a (cheesy) tactic
    for blitz warfare, making walls less useful, or atleast anything beyond stockade size wall. It's not that battle would start you in control of (one) gatehouse but instead all of the gates are in fact smashed open which makes even less sense.

    In my games of old vanilla Rome and RTR too, regardless of the faction i play,
    the speed that i can capture cities with spies is nothing short of blitz warfare. Best success i had recently as Germania against Macedon. I sailed past Macedon armies over Adriatic sea with one warship and razed some 10 cities with half of the gates open, making it possible to take two cities in one turn.

    Opening the gates presents no risk after city is infiltrated, unlike assasinations for example. And as an insult to the injury, allthough AI makes use of spies, it doesn't use them to open the gates for his armies (never ever has this happened against me).

    Second reason is the line of sight of spies. Even an unexperienced subterfuge 1 spy has considerable line of sight making watch towers useless. With meager expense of 100 denarii you remove considerable area of fog of war with these mobile radar stations. With roughly 1000 denarii per turn you will afford enough spies to ensure that no army of yours will ever be ambushed nor will any enemy army ever reach any of your cities unnoticed. This partly applies to generals also who can gain los increasing traits. Fog of war is essential part of the game which massive los ruins.

    Assassins
    Allthough assassination has been a useful tool thoughout the history,
    not even Jason Bourne could go against the assassins in RTW.

    Even subterfuge 1 assassins has decent chance against valuable target.
    Assassins gain skill fast and it is not uncommon to get subterfuge 8-10 super killers to dispatch of all those pesky generals. If you train roughly 5 assassins, chances are that atleast one of them will survive few missions and is well on his way towards being one of those super killers that can take out even a faction leader.

    The success rate of assassins is simply absurd, let alone the thought of a Numidian assassin taking out a Roman faction leader sitting in Rome. Personally i'd just remove the entire assassin unit from the game. Assasination has been common over times, but usually within the nations borders and very rare over the borders.

    City walls
    I've allways thought walls being pretty much useless in every total war game, because they need someone to defend them. City usually has small garrison just to keep riots in check. Larger garrison would simply be too expensive overally if you intend to have such in every city that is potentially threatened.

    So what is really the point of having walls bigger than stockade?
    Walls take long time to build, but epic walls slow the attacker down only for one turn (build the siege engines) but so does the stockade. With agents opening the gates, the bigger walls serve even less purpose.

    Large walls have towers to shoot arrows, but the casualties are quite small in the end and there are dead angles in the walls to avoid even that.
    And even best, once you capture a tower, it will start to shoot the defenders.

    Overally taking cities is too easy in every single TW i've played.
    Walls are nothing but waste of gold and effort, and potentially will be
    used against your own troops inside the walls. I'd like to see this somehow improved, unfortunately i lack ideas myself. More towers? More effective towers? City militia?

    Thanks for a great mod and hopefully it will be more great in the next version.

    P.S. I'd really appreciate if you could change the Spartan hoplite skin to more macho.
    The official Spartan hoplite skin patch doesn't work with RTR and the vanilla Spartans look like little red riding hoods.
    Last edited by hat79; November 02, 2007 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    Firstly, some of those things are hardcoded I think so they can`t really be changed.
    Secondly, the next version of RTR will be RTR 7 so maybe you should post this in the main RTR sub-forum. If you want it moved let me know.
    Thirdly, I`m curious, what is the "official Spartan hoplite skin"? (As a side note, any unit for this game engine can be implemented in RTR).
    Other then that I`m glad you`ve enjoyed the mod.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    Feel free to move the post if it finds the developers better that way.

    And the Spartan skin i was referring to was this:
    http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...ml?sid=6114017

    Don't know if it's historically accurate look, but atleast it's a menacing look unlike the army of little red riding hoods.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    Yes, well, there was a similar thread about the spartans some time ago. That pylos helmet they have in RTRPE might not be as cool as the corinthian but it appears to be the proper one for this timeframe.

    Moved to the RTR sub-forum.

  5. #5
    Brusilov's Avatar Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    Quote Originally Posted by hat79 View Post
    Opening the gates presents no risk after city is infiltrated, unlike assasinations for example. And as an insult to the injury, allthough AI makes use of spies, it doesn't use them to open the gates for his armies (never ever has this happened against me).
    It's happened to me in RTR 6 Gold games.

    With walls - it means that you can defend a settlement for longer if you have a semi-decent garrison. A few (or more than a few) archer units can take out the towers using fire.



    Quote Originally Posted by hat79 View Post
    Feel free to move the post if it finds the developers better that way.

    And the Spartan skin i was referring to was this:
    http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...ml?sid=6114017

    Don't know if it's historically accurate look, but atleast it's a menacing look unlike the army of little red riding hoods.
    Even though it's an 'official RTW unit' it looks like it came from '300'.
    Last edited by Brusilov; November 02, 2007 at 07:54 PM.

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  6. #6
    MCM's Avatar Saint of lost causes
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    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    @ hat79

    Thank you for your comments, the devs do check in here regularly and look at what has been posted.

    cheers

  7. #7

    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    Some more views of mine for improvement, since i keep forgetting things before i write them down.

    Buildings

    I like the RTR idea of pacification of regions in the auxilia I/II/III way - a lot. It takes time to secure land beyond immediate city walls, implement laws of the culture in practice and such.

    However this should work the other way around aswell. Currently, upon conquering a city you can immediately demolish an auxilia/barracks.
    If a region has been under secure control for example the Romans, it doesn't make sense that Germania upon conquering the region would root out and eradicate all the support and sympathy for Roman ways, yet without Germania even having auxilia 1 built there.

    So what i suggest is that:
    -Auxilia/barracks cannot be demolished
    -It can only be reduced in level, by improving auxilia of another culture.

    Example
    Region has Roman barracks. Germania builds auxilia I, and as a result
    Roman barracks is replaced by auxilia III. When Germania builds auxilia II
    Roman auxilia is reduced to auxilia II. When Germania finally builds heroes hall, the Roman support from the region is finally removed by removing auxilia I.

    This would in a way improve the handicapped AI, that doesn't demolish buildings of another culture, that human player normally does to get rid of culture penalty, gain gold and most importantly deny troop training if the city is retaken.

    Currently it is fairly easy to cripple AI factions by sacking barracks, after which AI has little use to the city even after it takes it back - no troop training, no resistance.

    Feel free to improve this idea somehow. All i wish that the AI would be on equal terms. Either it would also destroy non-benefial buildings after conquering the city, OR implement linear auxilia improvement/decay to reflect the control over entire region - if it is possible through modding.

    Sieges and assault

    AI should conquer rebel cities more aggressively. It might have two full stacks
    lying next to city with 200 defenders and not take it. Or it might siege it for 6 turns and break siege one turn before the city falls. Doesn't make any sense.
    In fact the siege "perk" doesn't matter even if the city is yours. Doesn't really make sense that the AI sieges a city for 3-4 turns before assaulting if it has 10 to 1 man advantage. Building enough siege equipment takes 2 turns tops, usually only 1 with large stack.
    Last edited by hat79; November 05, 2007 at 11:31 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    Great idea about Auxilia/Barracks buldings. Never even thought about it that way.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    Yeah an example of real cleverness, good ideas you have there.

    I like the idea of the Auxilia Buildings.

    Q.

  10. #10
    AngryTitusPullo's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Suggestions for upcoming versions

    There's no more auxilia system as in RTR 6 ... It's a different thing altogether.


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