From Shieldwall to Testudo

[Reno Melitensis]

It is possible in IJ to give Legio Palatina and Legio Commitatensis the Testudo special ability. And if yes, is there the risk of a ctd on saved game.

Cheers.

[Pompeius Magnus]

I can give the clearly answer: Yes, it is possible. Without any Ctd!

I made it one or 2 years ago with another unit and it worked. It was really very easy. You have to edit a txt.file and you have to delete the word "shieldwall" and you can overwrite with "testudo".
But I can't remember which file it was.
It is also for me interesting. I hope another user can help us.

[julianus heraclius]

I can give the clearly answer: Yes, it is possible. Without any Ctd!

I made it one or 2 years ago with another unit and it worked. It was really very easy. You have to edit a txt.file and you have to delete the word "shieldwall" and you can overwrite with "testudo".
But I can't remember which file it was.
It is also for me interesting. I hope another user can help us.

Gentlemen,

If you go into the export_descr_unit.txt file. The go down to the palatina units and find the line formation. It should look something like this:

formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4,square, shield_wall

Now to make Palatina units use testudo, replace the word shield_wall with the word testudo. So the line should look like this:

formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4,square, testudo

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[CIaagent11]

If you go into the export_descr_unit.txt file. The go down to the palatina units and find the line formation. It should look something like this:

formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4,square, shield_wall

Now to make Palatina units use testudo, replace the word shield_wall with the word testudo. So the line should look like this:

formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4,square, testudo

I changed a few units from shield wall to testudo.
And when they go into testudo the game will ctd.
Any idea why?

[julianus heraclius]

I changed a few units from shield wall to testudo.
And when they go into testudo the game will ctd.
Any idea why?

It should work. Can you copy and paste the unit that you gave testudo to from the edu.

Thanks

[CIaagent11]

It should work. Can you copy and paste the unit that you gave testudo to from the edu.

Thanks

Yes. Here you go.
I tested legio lanciarii in a custom battle, and it crashed when I put them into testudo.
They start going into the formation, and then ctd.
This might have something to do with the other ctd's I'm experiencing.
That thread is in the IBFD main forum.

Don't be surprised, I modified a little bit on the units.
Took away the legionary_name, for example.

type legio lanciarii
dictionary legio_lanciarii ; Legio Lanciarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Medium_1
soldier legio_lanciarii, 40, 0, 1
officer roman_centurion
officer roman_vexilarii
officer roman_standard
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy
formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 5,square, testudo
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 8,2, javelin, 50, 4, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 25, 1
stat_pri_attr prec,thrown
stat_sec 13,6, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 25, 0.73
stat_sec_attr spear,spear_bonus_8
stat_pri_armour 12,16, 6, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 3, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 1, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 34,disciplined,highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 50
stat_fire_delay -50000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 3, 1100, 580, 70, 100, 550
ownership empire_west, empire_west_rebels, empire_east

[Pompeius Magnus]

that helps. Thanx
is it possible to take both formations?

[julianus heraclius]

that helps. Thanx
is it possible to take both formations?

Unfortunately no.

[Pompeius Magnus]

Pity.
Well, what do you expect Julianus?
I think the shield-wall formation is more realistic, isn't it?
I know that some forms of the testudo survived in 410, but the shield wall was more common. Esp. for the Aux Palatinae.
In the reign of Julian I am not sure. But I think it was in 350/360 nealry the same situation.
The shield-wall was more used. Or do you have other information?

[julianus heraclius]

Pity.
Well, what do you expect Julianus?
I think the shield-wall formation is more realistic, isn't it?
I know that some forms of the testudo survived in 410, but the shield wall was more common. Esp. for the Aux Palatinae.
In the reign of Julian I am not sure. But I think it was in 350/360 nealry the same situation.
The shield-wall was more used. Or do you have other information?

I agree with you, I think the shield wall was in use. The fulcum was possible a late roman variant of the testudo, but used mainly against cavalry.

i can only postulate that with the decline of siege warfare there was little need of the testudo, but I'm only speculating.

cheers

[Reno Melitensis]

Facing a lot of archer cavalry the Testudo will be very helpful. Playing IJ, the Danube limes is full of Alans and Sarmations, and in a few years time the Huns will knocking on the Roman frontier. Also according to Philip Rance, the Fulcrum, as Julianus said, may have been simply a new Hellanized name for the Testudo, was used by the sixth century army in the east to close the distance between the main Byzantine or ERE battle line and the Sassanid archers. I read the paper and it is very interesting to finally understand the Germanization of the Roman army.

Cheers.

[Razor]

Is there a way to modify these testudo and shieldwall formations? I'm not too happy with them...

[julianus heraclius]

Is there a way to modify these testudo and shieldwall formations? I'm not too happy with them...

I don't know, but I certainly would like the testudo to be converted in the late roman fulcrum.

[Coni]

Where are the differences between Testudo and fulcon?

[Razor]

They're basically the same formation. No real differences.

[Coni]

Ok. And why modify this formation? What is the background?

[Razor]

The Testudo formation ingame creates a deep block of soldiers with all shields up á la Asterix and Obelix while the fulcrum/shieldwall would be wider and thinner. Though I believe there are various versions of testudo/fulcrum shieldwall so...

[seriousbusiness]

The Testudo formation was used principally in sieges, although probably also if infantry came under missile fire generally. Compared with the shield wall, less used. It would have been nice for Activision to make it possible to use both, and to make the unit practcally immune to missile fire in that formation (even lighter troops with large shields) as well as shield wall. Especially against heavier fortifications Testudo was (and should be in game) extremely useful. I miss it.

I beat the Battle of Carrhae on VH mostly by choosing the optimal times to use testudo. I miss testudo

I might enable it for certain comitatenses but not for others, so I can choose which units to put in testudo for that particular role. Looks so cool, too.

[julianus heraclius]

The fulcum was a late roman variation of the testudo and roman troops still used it in battle as well as seiges. Yes it is a pity that you can't have both so I leave it to you to decide which troops use which.

One option may be to give western troops the shieldwall and eastern troops the fulcum (testudo) as archery was more predominant in the east compared to the west. Hmm:hmmm: in fact that's not a bad idea.

What do other people think?

[zmv]

I think it will be better if we give shield wall abilities only comitatensis armed with spear and comitatensis armed with sword should have testudo abilities.