Economic Planning

[Grey Bahamut]

Hi just wondering if anybody's got some really good universal economic strategies to share. Money is always a bit of a problem for me, so what structures are best, and which are not worth it, and so on? Ty 4 n e responses

[NobleNick]

Hi just wondering if anybody's got some really good universal economic strategies ... so what structures are best, and which are not worth it, and so on? ...

I am a M2TW newb, but an old hand at RTW. I have carried my RTW economic strategies forward to M2TW, and they seem to be working well. Here is my put...

The important thing is to give your economy the highest priority, and to view troops as an extension of your economy (capturing towns to help economy). I am not yet an expert on all the mind-boggling variety of buildings; but the first two upgrades of roads, ports, markets, mines and farms are all no-brainers: do it.

Less obvious are the buildings which increase happiness and order. I build these, too; and use them to help keep taxes cranked up as high as possible. All my cities run on Very High tax, unless there is a special Public Order problem in the city which prevents it. This slows population growth, but if you built the first two farm upgrades, it shouldn't be a problem.

IIRC the first mining rig costs 2000 and returns 200/turn, which gives you pay off in 12 turns (2 to build + 10 turns at 200/turn). The next upgrade costs 3500 and returns 350/turn. This is only 150/turn more than the basic mine, but still worth it IMO. Pay-off for the upgrade is about 25 turns. The earlier you build these, the more you get out of them, but do not build unless you KNOW you will not lose the city. In RTW, building a mine in a border city was like hanging out a sign saying, "Attack me!" I usually build the first mine in each town as soon as I can (around turn 10) and then upgrade when finances loosen up (around turn 40).

Crank out a diplomat or two and get trade rights with everyone you can, starting with your nearest neighbors. To maximize your trade income, try to keep your wars limited to one country at a time, since warring countries do not trade with each other.

View your troops as investments. What is the return on your investment? If you build troops to lounge around the castle, then the return is zero. Actually the return is negative if you account for the troop upkeep. Build troops only to get more cities (seems obvious, but I need to keep reminding myself of this). A "fortification" mentality will bog your economy down. Have a clear plan in mind when you build troops. That plan should not include loafing in the city unless it is absolutely necessary.

Build quality troops so that you can get by with fewer of them. Get a hold of brandybarrel's FAUST to see what troop costs are, so that you can be as cost effective as possible. Run your military "lean and mean." Example: English Dismounted Feudal Knights (EDFK) cost 570 to recruit. THe only slightly better English Armored Swordsmen (EAS) cost 610 to recruit. It's a wash, right? Wrong: upkeep on the EDFK is 225 and is only 150 for the EAS. If you recruit an EDFK unit, and it takes you 5 turns to get them into battle, you've spent a total of 1695 on the unit. EAS costs only 1360 for the same period (and did I mention it is a superior unit?). IF you are getting these guys to just loaf around the castle (bad idea) then after 21 turns, the EDFK have cost you 5070, whereas the superior EAS have only cost you 3610. It adds up.

I hope this helps.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

As a direct way of increasing your revenue, I'd suggest the following steps:

Upgrade Agriculture: This includes farming, irrigation, land clearance, etc. Always upgrade your agriculture when you settlement reaches a new level. Remember to always check your Production graph on the Factions tab.

Build agriculture upgrades on all your settlements and see your Production graph go up. Do it now.

Roads: Needless to say, roads not only make your army move around faster, they increase the amount of trade that comes in and goes out of your settlements. Trade = more money.

Garrison: Always use the lowest cost units as garrison units. When it comes to keeping the peace inside your cities, the quality of your troops matters not. So if you have a city well within your empire with no threats from outside, use cheap units to maintain law and order.

Navy: DON'T build naval units. They cost a lot and they're good for nothing.

Ports: Build and upgrade ports, shipwrights, etc in all your settlements.

The rest has been comprehensively covered by NobleNick. I'd like to add to his point about sending Diplomats for Trade Rights: while you're at it, sell your Map Information for 1,000 to 2,000 Florins. This is vital money at the start of your campaign.

There are strategy guides in the TWC Wiki. I'd post link to those but I'm running late for college.

gl hf.

Edit: Just like NobleNick pointed out, don't waste money on unnecessary army units. Upkeep takes a lot of money and you have to make sure that each and every unit you recruit and maintain goes into battle to expand your empire. Your army can drain your treasury if you make it in large numbers and camp with it.

[Renco]

...Money is always a bit of a problem for me...

My first suggestion, is if your a bit new to the whole, income>expenditure business, is to play as Scotland for a while. Their unit descriptions always, for almost every unit, talk about how the Highlanders had less money than the engish, and were thus worse equipped. It stands to reason that they have cheaper upkeep. You can have 3 of the best Scotish Early/High armies for the upkeep of 5 English ones (very roughly). You will easily have all towns pumping away and hit 50,000 by turn 50, probably sooner.
Another tip, unless your army suits it, stay the hell away from cav. A horse seems to need it's grass imported from home, the local grass not being to it's taste. Very very expensive. Once again, Scotland (gotta love that Scotland) has pikes, so they don't need cav.

On to an actual building roster thing. Early period Farms. Above all. Under military duress you will build walls, barracks, but essentially you want farms. Trade isn't the massive money maker it was in RTW, untill later game. Until you have farms which take 4 turns to build, farms are the way to go. They yield a nice dividend in themselves, whilst growing poowerful aphrodisiacs to help grow the population, which means more tax and a smaller time until you can build more farms. What joy!

To summarize, try you hand at a less costly, calmer faction (SCOTLAND FTW), build farms and tax the lowly peasants until they bleed from the rags they call pockets.

[Kratos]

Cities are moneymakers, castles are good for defending borders. Thus, as your empire expands, convert your castles into cities once they are no longer defending a border.

[NobleNick]

Cities are moneymakers, castles are good for defending borders. Thus, as your empire expands, convert your castles into cities once they are no longer defending a border.

Excellent point about cities versus castles (cities make lots more money).

Kratos' strategy is a valid one, I am sure. However, I have been trying to follow advice from some veterans who have taken a slightly different tact: Instead of going through the lost expense of converting castles to cities, just keep the city to castle ratio at approximately 4 cities to 1 castle. This seems more economically sound then investing in castle buildings and then losing a large chunk of that investment when you convert.

I say trying to follow this strategy, because I keep capturing castles, which drives my ratio down to more like 3:1. Still, I am on turn 81 of my very first M2TW campaign (M/M English) : I have 32 provinces, and clear about 42000 net (after army upkeep) each turn. I plow 80% of that right back into buildings. England is ranked number 1 in everything on the end of turn report, except for finance. The reason it is ranked low on finance is because I spend myself almost broke every turn on buildings. Every city is building, always, unless there are no more buildings to build (or the rare case where the military building is useless or I have run out of cash). That means currently 31 out of 32 provinces are building. And most of the buildings are economic buildings.

Build, build, build.

[Kahn]

For a while there, I'd fallen into the "Must Expand My Empire at All Cost" mentality.

I must keep reminding myself that wars cost money, and if you don't pay heed to that bit of truth, then your armies will run out of steam.

If you are a player like me, then you too have trouble remembering to slow it down sometimes and let the land you already have grow into something that can actually afford a war. I will often neglect my economy for a while and forget the fact that just because somebody is attacking you does not mean you have to attack back. If you find yourself stretching your economy thin and you've got some angry peasants, it's important to take some time (even if it's only a couple of turns) to stop and take a look at the economy and act accordingly.

Navy: DON'T build naval units. They cost a lot and they're good for nothing.

I know I haven't been playing anywhere as near as long as Sextus has, but I have to ask how this can be true. I'm quite partial to the English campaign and I can honestly say that my life gets significantly easier later on in the campaign when I block off all access points to the open Atlantic sea. This way those damned dutch don't come up behind me and drop a few stacks into the French portion of my empire, which is my Castle-less economic area.

Explain yourself, good sir !

[Ryoken]

I know I haven't been playing anywhere as near as long as Sextus has, but I have to ask how this can be true. I'm quite partial to the English campaign and I can honestly say that my life gets significantly easier later on in the campaign when I block off all access points to the open Atlantic sea. This way those damned dutch don't come up behind me and drop a few stacks into the French portion of my empire, which is my Castle-less economic area.

Explain yourself, good sir !

I will take a crack at this question.

The reason is the upkeep. Naval upkeep is very large and for the price of naval upkeep you could be fielding more armies. If you need to actually transport an army, build a ship or two and then disband them afterward. But the upkeep for naval strength is huge and not worth it.

[Sitarus Originalus PM-30+]

good post Sextus Loverlord!! + reputation

Also, i would point out what i do to save money:
- keep the upkeep lover then the taxes income (too big armies can crush your economy)

[malcolm mcdowell]

fair point. its also worth noting that the economic loss your enemy will encounter whilst you block his ports with ships will be basically 0 becaus ethe ai gets a bit of a hand-out. so imo its not really worth it.
the only thing i use my ships for is transporting people, but disbanding them shortly afterwards, and also shutting off landbridges, which can be SO useful in certain situations. also its quite funny to 'lock' people in the islands up by denmark! but for these you only need one ship, thus minimising cost.

another tip for economic management is to pay attention to how many units you can get on free upkeep in your towns, and dont put 'castle' units in cities for any length of time - they cost, when you could get a town unit to do the same job for free! i think in my campaign at the moment i am paying for just one unit in 9 towns.

[Renco]

...and also shutting off landbridges, which can be SO useful in certain situations. also its quite funny to 'lock' people in the islands up by denmark! but for these you only need one ship, thus minimising cost

Yeah, thats so cheap, yet effective. I once got a faction leader and the heir and another family member onto the islands by keeping a boat out of there line of sight, then when they move across, they get stuck. Next turn, move another ship and block off the other route. Now they're stuck, paying for an army that does nothing, whilst they can't re-recruit anything for lack of funds. So good.

[Evolution]

Money is also a bit of a problem for me...(

My Economic Building plan is:

1st, roads

2nd, trader

3rd, Market

4th, farms

5th,Farms again

6th, Port

then after that you are free to build.... what you want