- - Alliance - -

[xxhamzxx]

Hello, I am asking how Efficient Alliances are. Are they just a thing to help me feel safe on 1 border when I'm really not? I know it brings trade and such, But if they do happen to attack, Oh ****!

How do i improve my Relations with other factions? I tried GIVING them Florins, But they won't accept it...what Noobs.

Any suggestions?

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Here's what I've learned through personal experience:

- Alliances made directly through your Diplomats are very likely to fail, especially if you share a common border with your counterpart faction. CA has developed it's factions to attack it's border towns and cities no matter what so any Alliance with a neighbor will be short-lived even if you're a superpower and they are mere peasants.

Alliances through marriages last longer. The border principle re-applies.

If you're asked to become a Vassal and given a huge sum of money in exchange, always accept. You can stab them in the back and those Florins can churn out some Heavy Cavalry for you.

How do i improve my Relations with other factions? I tried GIVING them Florins, But they won't accept it...what Noobs.

Giving money to other factions is a bad idea. They'd ultimately use the same Florins to raise an army against you. However, if you want your reputation among nations to improve, you'll have to play a slower, turtle-like campaign. You won't, for instance, attack your Allies or even Neutral Factions.

Your reputations makes little difference to anything though.

[Andy B]

Cheers for that Sextus, helped me out abit also.

Well from my experience my alliances hold up quite well, unless two go to war.
Its worth it to haggle in your diplomatic deals, i only ever offer a small amount of money to the papals to increase relations... now and again.

I've just started a new game as HRE so my rep, power and money were rubbish.

When other factions approach or you meet them,
usually offering trade rights and map info,

counter offer with alliance, trade rights and demand map info, reg trib of
200 every 10 turns w/e, depends on the other factions wealth.
[ keeps the alliance strong and maintains good relations. ]

they always accept if the odds are generous or balanced, and maintain very good relations.

and then if your feeling lucky, offer to attack rebels for a single payment,
demand somthing quite high, and they might counter with a couple of thousand.

Every little helps in my empire - should do in yours.
i'd say only ever give the pope money no one else.

[Renco]

Here's what I've learned through personal experience:

- Alliances made directly through your Diplomats are very likely to fail, especially if you share a common border with your counterpart faction. CA has developed it's factions to attack it's border towns and cities no matter what so any Alliance with a neighbor will be short-lived even if you're a superpower and they are mere peasants.

BAH!
Look at the file descr_campaign_ai_db.xml
It's pretty long, but it is essentially what the AI is programed to do. an example is.
<min_entry num_settlements="1" />

<max_entry is_neighbour="false" />

</decision_entry>
- <decision_entry>
- <!-- if we're at war && he borders all our groups && his frontline strength is more than thrice as large as ours && his free strength is more than four times as large as ours, AND IS NOT OUR SHADOW FACTION >>> propose become protectorate -->f(clean);





Essentially this means the AI will become your vassal if you match the above description, somethign I've found useful in knowing so I don't ruin diplomats. There are many others that will tell you exactly what the enemy will do if you have left you 'frontline' defence a bit weak.
Another thing i've found is your allies love you if you don't go to war, and they don't mind if your troops walk all around a potential enemy. I did this to England as Scotland. Prepared for an invasion, then sent a border horse unit to aggravate them to attack. Bam, england has declared war on Scotland, and Scotland retaliates, as any real ruler would do, right? Backing of the Pope and your allies and you are never impeded in your march to conquest.

[Vor]

Depends if you play mods or not. Many have upgraded Diplomatic AI and I've been known to keep alliances for hundreds of years with SS 4.1, obviously you need to maintain good relations, but its not to hard.

I help them out now and then if they are getting into trouble militarily, or give them cash, map info and whatnot.

[Andy B]

Depends if you play mods or not. Many have upgraded Diplomatic AI and I've been known to keep alliances for hundreds of years with SS 4.1, obviously you need to maintain good relations, but its not to hard.

I help them out now and then if they are getting into trouble militarily, or give them cash, map info and whatnot.

yeah I'll aslo help out good factions from time to time,

oh yeah i forgot to mention that - with darthmod, the alliances are totally mad. after like 5 turns nearly all the factions had " despicible " rep, it was good for war but not for deals.

[xxhamzxx]

Thanks mates, And thanks Sextus, Very Valuable input

[xxhamzxx]

1 More question, Squalor has become a problem in a few of my Settlements, How do i reduce the negative effects?

[Lost Crusader]

1 More question, Squalor has become a problem in a few of my Settlements, How do i reduce the negative effects?

Squalor is related to a settlement's population. Upgrading a city to a next level (by building larger walls) seems to lower it.

You can reduce the effect of squalor by using the usual methods to raise citizen's happiness: lower the taxes, build churches, town halls etc, have a governor with high chivalry and some public order traits...

[pwijnands]

Some alliances last very long in my campaign, especially the ones I make early on. I find that my standing with other factions that I'm not allied with drop slowly as the game progresses. I offered trade rights to the English (I was HRE) after about 20 turns or so and they barely accepted.
Nowadays I make alliances to every faction I can as fast as I can, while they are still willing. This usually gives me a "reliable" global standing after a dozen turns and grows to "very reliable". When the campaign goes along wars will inevitably be declared so some alliances are broken. If an ally decides to attack me, they become a very hated faction (their reputation drops instantly to "very untrustworthy".

[Metellus]

BAH!
Look at the file descr_campaign_ai_db.xml
It's pretty long, but it is essentially what the AI is programed to do. an example is.
<min_entry num_settlements="1" />

<max_entry is_neighbour="false" />

</decision_entry>
- <decision_entry>
- <!-- if we're at war && he borders all our groups && his frontline strength is more than thrice as large as ours && his free strength is more than four times as large as ours, AND IS NOT OUR SHADOW FACTION >>> propose become protectorate -->f(clean);

Renco, thanks for the info but how does the AI define the terms "frontline strength", "free strength", "groups" (stacks??) etc.? In other words what do I more or less have to do to "show" the AI that it would be wise to become my vassal?

[Renco]

Renco, thanks for the info but how does the AI define the terms "frontline strength", "free strength", "groups" (stacks??) etc.? In other words what do I more or less have to do to "show" the AI that it would be wise to become my vassal?

Frontline strength seems to be the bordering towns garrison, whilst free strength seems to be a toss up between your total forces outside towns or you total forces outside towns and in their lands.

The AI, being the computer that it is, seems to know all your frotline strength and a few stacks outside their main city should prove well enough that you have greater free strength.

[AytchMan]

Depends if you play mods or not.

On the value of alliances, Vor has nailed it. In vanilla M2, your relations with the AI factions will deteriorate in proportion to your success; there is little you can do. Make all the alliances you want -- when the AI decides the time has come, one or more of your neighbors will drop the anvil on you. On the other hand, many of the mods have reworked the diplomatic AI into a much more realistic (and less one-dimensional) framework.

[Metellus]

^^ I've been playing a Vanilla 1.4 game as Sicily and progressed to just after the age of Gunpowder. I have been consciously trying this time to be chivalrous, i.e. absolutely NO exterminating of Catholics. I have also sacked only 2 or 3 times. I have been on good terms with the Papacy, Hungary and Portugal basically since the beginning of the game. Rarely have I needed to give them tribute, in fact every couple of turns I get the message "due to various factors your relations with faction X has improved" just out of the blue.

After this campaign I really don't think this aspect of the diplomacy is incorrect. In a previous campaign I regularly exterminated, had high dread, and regularly had betrayals by allies. This campaign I have't had a single one. Also, one of my provinces (Bucharest) is surrounded by Hungarian territories (I got military access from them a while back) and they haven't yet declared war on me even though we are neighbours.

I end up at war only with the factions that are consistently being the neighbourhood bullies, in fact there is a whole power bloc of bad guys, but their actions are logical since they are enemies of my allies and of the Papacy (which I dominate). Every time they declare war on me the Papacy sees it my way and excoms them.

Try the Chivalry route, you may be surprised, its a completely different game!

[Metellus]

Thanks... in my game last night Russia accepted becoming The Mongols vassal, and checking with fow off I see that The Mongols had only one near-full stack in Russian territory, but it must have also been the frontline strength of the Mongols that contributed (although I didn't take particular note of what that was).

[Bob The Fearless]

Metellus,

Interesting read about your "Chivalous" campaign.

How are you finding expansion, slow and hard going ?

Do you think you can acheive the victory conditions using this approach?

How do you start a, if you like, "legal war"?

I was going to do my next campaign following these rules and see how well my reputation held up.

[Vor]

Thanks... in my game last night Russia accepted becoming The Mongols vassal, and checking with fow off I see that The Mongols had only one near-full stack in Russian territory, but it must have also been the frontline strength of the Mongols that contributed (although I didn't take particular note of what that was).

Even with FoW off you can't see stacks that are hidden in forests etc. Its possible they had more in Russian lands.

[Trajan]

Alliances don't really do much for me. It just gives me a good reason to give a faction money gifts to improve my rep just for the hell of it. Besides that, it just improves the story/tale of the campaign. If it was easier to convince an ally to declare war on a faction that you're at war with, that would be all I need.

[The Noble Lord]

Hi all,

Thanks to Sextus Loverlord
I am doing it right now. It does help.

CHEERS


" huns, mongols, timurids are the scourge of GOD "

[Metellus]

Metellus,

Interesting read about your "Chivalous" campaign.

How are you finding expansion, slow and hard going ?

Do you think you can acheive the victory conditions using this approach?

How do you start a, if you like, "legal war"?

I was going to do my next campaign following these rules and see how well my reputation held up.

Well I've been limiting my expansion 'cos I think conquering like 50 provinces as SICILY is a bit unrealistic, LOL. So I chose short campaign. Nevertheless I have been expanding (have 8 provinces) slowly, its not my main focus though. I've been working more on dominating the cardinals college and working on my other agents (I have a lvl 10 merchant trading silk near Constantinople and he's raking in about 950 florins per turn).

But its not difficult to expand and remain chivalrous. Firstly NEVER exterminate. In fact when you Occupy you will often get a message saying your general's Chiv has increased due to him "going easy on the people" or some such. Also, dominate the college of cardinals by sending priests to spread Catholicism in low-Cath areas, it soups up their piety very quickly, and before you know it they are being elected into the college. Expand territorially by waging wars against excommed Catholics; basically if the Pope excoms a Catholic faction its an all-access pass to conquer their lands. The thing is, the more of their land you conquer (all the other Catholic factions turn a blind eye), the more they hate you, so even when the Pope takes pity on them and drops the excom, they hate you so much they attack you very soon after and get excommed again. Just be aware during the times when the Pope has reconciled them, don't attack them during that time or your Reputation will suffer. Once faction X has been conquered, some other faction will have a bone to pick with you so you just do all that all over again. Also don't use assassins unless you absolutely have to, your leader's Chiv drops periodically even when you're successful (silly IMO).

Work on developing good relations with at least 2-3 factions, including the Papacy (build cathedrals or go on Crusades for the Papacy), gift money or whatever to the factions, particularly early on when no distinct power blocs have formed yet. Use your princesses, marry them off to the factions you have in mind as allies. There is a chance your princess could elope with the general though. You can also use your diplomats and while in negotiations there will be an option "marry princess to faction heir" if YOUR faction heir is unmarried. This nets you a wife for him, kids on the way, and good relations. Give the faction/s a gift from time to time if you feel you need to, and keep your eye on the Diplomacy screen regularly to make sure your relations are still "outstanding" or similar.

Oh another thing is to keep an eye on who is allied with whom, that way you will see what power blocs are forming and you can change diplomatic targets if necessary. Its pointless trying to ally with a faction that is already allies with someone you are enemies with. You'll find all your offers are 'Demanding' and they will be very difficult to negotiate with. Also, going to war with a certain faction (or just attacking/defending) causes a chain reaction of standings loss with factions with which they are allied. I firmly believe you can have a good alliance with even a neighbouring faction by keeping your Chiv high. They'll end up expanding in another direction.