[Decision] Concerning the Citizen's Handbook

[Trax]

Decision

Curia decides that TWC needs an updated version of Citizen's Handbook and appoints the CdeC to write one. The new Handbook will then be voted upon by the Curia and adopted if it recieves the support of more then 2/3 of non-abstaining votes.

Reason: This thread.

Disclaimer: The ideas presented in this decision are not only mine, so be gentle with me.

Proposer: Trax
Supporters: jimkatalanos, Scar Face, Halie Satanus

[jimkatalanos]

OK, I support.

[Scar Face]

I have a question before I support: Is your idea that the Handbook should be legally binding to Civitates or simply be a guide?

[Trax]

I think this should be decided by a separate decision after this one passes the vote.

[jimkatalanos]

I think this should be decided by a separate decision after this one passes the vote.

The handbook is a guide. The constitution and the ToS are the things the citizens should obey.

[Scar Face]

Alright, this has my support.

[Trax]

The handbook is a guide. The constitution and the ToS are the things the citizens should obey.

Unless the Curia decides otherwise

[jimkatalanos]

Unless the Curia decides otherwise

So, the citizens will not obey the ToS and the Constitution, but a handbook?
A handbook that is a guide for new citizens...

[Trax]

No, citizens will have to obey all the three. Don't forget, this is a hypothetical situation we are speaking about at the moment.

[Elrond]

This decsion seems to ignore my reasons for moving the handbook back into public view - its meant to be a voluntary hand book to help new citizens -something which I have stated several times.

Its also not something the curia needs to vote on - it only has a effect on someone if they follow it. I choose what threads are stickied and unless the speaker or Hex veto my choices they should stay there - the citizens handbook will have virtually no effect on those who are complaining about it - its only meant to help new citizens.

[jimkatalanos]

This decsion seems to ignore my reasons for moving the handbook back into public view - its meant to be a voluntary hand book to help new citizens -something which I have stated several times.

Its also not something the curia needs to vote on - it only has a effect on someone if they follow it. I choose what threads are stickied and unless the speaker or Hex veto my choices they should stay there - the citizens handbook will have virtually no effect on those who are complaining about it - its only meant to help new citizens.

The curia can and should decide to update it.

[Halie Satanus]

This decsion seems to ignore my reasons for moving the handbook back into public view - its meant to be a voluntary hand book to help new citizens -something which I have stated several times.

Though it is out dated in some areas which is the point of this thread.

Its also not something the curia needs to vote on

Why?.

it only has a effect on someone if they follow it. I choose what threads are stickied and unless the speaker or Hex veto my choices they should stay there -

So?.

the citizens handbook will have virtually no effect on those who are complaining about it - its only meant to help new citizens.

Which it won't if sections are out dated.

[Elrond]

The reason why Trax has started this decision is to stop the handbook - if it were a genuine attempt to update it I would fully support it. The fact that he is comparing it to the ToS shows that he has completely missed my reason for reintroducing it - as a voluntary guide to help new citizens. He fails to mention this in the decision because he knows that if current civs think it will affect them then they will vote against it. I doubt many people object to the CdeC updating a guide in order to advise new citizens how to post - the fact is that Trax doesn't want this happening and has phrased and explained the decision in such a way that its real purpose is ignored.

[Trax]

The reason why Trax has started this decision is to stop the handbook - if it were a genuine attempt to update it I would fully support it.

Plenty of mind readers on TWC I see.
To be honest I don't give a damn whether this decision passes or not.

What Trax may or may not have in his bag of nefarious and cunning plots is one thing, what this actually says is another, in no way is any enforcement of the hand book mentioned, if it was then obviously it would be voted down in a heart beat.

In order to help new citizens the Curia decides that TWC needs an updated version of Citizen's Handbook and appoints the CdeC to write one. The new Handbook will then be voted upon by the Curia and adopted if it recieves the support of more then 2/3 of non-abstaining votes.

There are plenty of old citizens who would badly need some help, really.
I might include it if you find three supporters for this change.

[Halie Satanus]

Curia decides that TWC needs an updated version of Citizen's Handbook and appoints the CdeC to write one. The new Handbook will then be voted upon by the Curia and adopted if it receives the support of more then 2/3 of non-abstaining votes.

What decision are you reading?, the one proposed can only do what it says anything after that will be proposed separately.

As Trax said when asked if this was to be legally binding.

I think this should be decided by a separate decision after this one passes the vote.

What Trax may or may not have in his bag of nefarious and cunning plots is one thing, what this actually says is another, in no way is any enforcement of the hand book mentioned, if it was then obviously it would be voted down in a heart beat.

I support.

[Banned]

A support from me, undoubtedly. We definitely need to set standards for choosing as well as reminding the citizens of the requisite conduct on the site.

Well, their reformation is the foremost approach, if required.

[Elrond]

To actually emphasize my reason for reinstating it I would like the following to be added to the start of the decison:

Decision

In order to help new citizens the Curia decides that TWC needs an updated version of Citizen's Handbook and appoints the CdeC to write one. The new Handbook will then be voted upon by the Curia and adopted if it recieves the support of more then 2/3 of non-abstaining votes.

[Professor420]

Has anyone seen the inside of the CdeC? They can hardly get half the members to vote on citizenship votes, and you expect to mandate them to update the Handbook?

Why not make a Curial Committee for it, have the Speaker as the Hex leader for it, and then choose from the volunteers (and appoint CdeC volunteers automatically), rather than place a mandate on a largely inactive body.

[Scar Face]

Well, the proposer is a member of the CDeC. I was also told a month or so ago when I proposed a change to the CDeC that most members voted, if this is in fact not true, then I fully support this going up to a committee.

[pannonian]

Has anyone seen the inside of the CdeC? They can hardly get half the members to vote on citizenship votes, and you expect to mandate them to update the Handbook?

Why not make a Curial Committee for it, have the Speaker as the Hex leader for it, and then choose from the volunteers (and appoint CdeC volunteers automatically), rather than place a mandate on a largely inactive body.

Past CdeC elections have included turnout figures for sitting CdeC members seeking re-election, so we can always kick out inactive members. Plus there is precedent for the CdeC purging itself of such members. How up to date and accurate is this picture of the CdeC you are painting, and where are you getting your information from?