Reform Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

now that these two countries are free from the Soviet Unions' grasp why have they not reformed this union of states? they seemed to do quite well together?

sorry if this is the wrong forum, i'm not sure whether this goes in history (because we are dealing with a historical state) or the Political academy.

move it if you see fit mods

[Trax]

Because the age of nationalism happened in the meantime. The relationship between the two countries wasn't exactly friendly in the interwar period after the both gained independence as the result of the WWI. The Poles ended up holding Vilnius and the Lithuanians were pretty pissed about that.

[Icefrisco]

I would like of Eastern Europe's borders to be redrawn. They suck now and always have.

Heres my new idea for Poland:
gives back Stettin to Germany
give some land to Kaliningrad Oblast so it can become an independant state
get parts of Ukraine that are Polish
merge with Lithuania
get a some border land from Belarus

Its a lot of radical ideas but it would definitely make Poland happy. They would love to get Ukrainian land.

[cegorach]

I would like of Eastern Europe's borders to be redrawn. They suck now and always have.

Heres my new idea for Poland:
gives back Stettin to Germany
give some land to Kaliningrad Oblast so it can become an independant state
get parts of Ukraine that are Polish
merge with Lithuania
get a some border land from Belarus

Its a lot of radical ideas but it would definitely make Poland happy. They would love to get Ukrainian land.

Sorry, but NOT. It was given up after 1945 during some passionate discussions in the exile and among the opposition (communists didn't speak about it - they didn't care anyway).

Poland was the FIRST country to recognise Ukraine as an independent state and supports all its efforts to move towards the West just like we did with Lithuania and are doing with Belorus. And we are happy with the present borders thank you.




Trax is very right about the reasoning why we are no longer interested in our own union - regional cooperation is a fact and will be expanded for sure, but it is no longer interesting to create our own super-state.


Of course we can see moves to create a powerful regional front in certain areas e.g. against certain Russian ideas about 're-reding history for example, but INSIDE the EU.

Of course the centuries old ideas of Promethean (i.e. liberational) approach towards the east have their part too - that is why you see such an effort to move Ukraine and Belorus towards democracy and to take them both to the EU. I reamains partly idealistic to the present day and I hope it will never disappear - at least I cannot imagine being Polish without supporting freedom and democracy elsewhere.

[Igor1981]

Heres my new idea for Poland:
gives back Stettin to Germany

Will people from Stettin's area have German's earnings?

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

are you from eastern europe?

[pannonian]

Moving to the Political Academy as suggested. They could do with a new topic.

[RusskiSoldat]

Heres my new idea for Poland:
gives back Stettin to Germany
give some land to Kaliningrad Oblast so it can become an independant state
get parts of Ukraine that are Polish
merge with Lithuania
get a some border land from Belarus

Those are all horrible ideas that have no grounding in reality.
And why would Kaliningrad Oblast' become an independent state when it has a larger population of Russians than big parts of Russia?

[Kanaric]

Those are all horrible ideas that have no grounding in reality.
And why would Kaliningrad Oblast' become an independent state when it has a larger population of Russians than big parts of Russia?

Yes, the motherland must be WHOLE

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

but it had such a cool name!

[RusskiSoldat]

Why not, considering no other nation has a claim to the area?
It was given up by Germany via treaty and is almost completely populated by Russians.
If you feel like warping back in time territorially, dare I suggest 1914 when the empire was still whole?

[Icefrisco]

It was given up by Germany via treaty and is almost completely populated by Russians.

Germany had so many other options then surrender Kaliningrad.

Stalin was not very sympathetic to Germans.

[Kanaric]

If they voted to leave Russia would the premier allow this insult?

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

If they voted to leave Russia would the premier allow this insult?

They would never leave the motherland willingly! if they want to they have been clearly tricked by evil western capitalist dogs!

[Lord Consul]

If they voted to leave Russia would the premier allow this insult?

If Alaska voted to leave the Union, would the President allow this insult?

Kanaric, Kaliningrad is Russian territory, inhabited by Russians who speak Russian and consider themselves as Russian as Ivan the Terrible himself. As such, the probability of a secession is null.

[cegorach]

I would give it 3-4 % - support to separatist ideas are around this number in the enclave.

[RusskiSoldat]

Germany had so many other options then surrender Kaliningrad.

They had the option of not starting WWII.
They also had the option of not slaughtering and enslaving millions.

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

that makes no sense most probably due to your limited knowledge of the English language, not that i am criticizing you for it, i have failed in my attempt at learning French, where you have a good grasp of English kudos to you sir!

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Poland and Lithuania never had an equal relationship in the first place - Lithuanian language and culture were being gradually wiped out by Polonization of culture in both Ruthenia and Lithuania, and the population of Wilno (Vilnius) in 1918 considered themselves far more polish than lithuanian. A result of centuries of suppression when Lithuanian identity was confined to a few illiterate peasants too poor to speak Polish.

[RusskiSoldat]

Honestly though I have no idea why Lithuania would want to unite with Poland, since the Baltic states are just about the most economically succesful countries in the world at this point (in terms of how they're developing relative to their past).