The Kingdom of Jerusalem

**Inhuman One** · October 19, 2007, 06:18 PM

I had been looking forward to playing this faction in a grand campaign, I like how there are many different knight orders included, I like to sort of have factions in my factions.

But, I do want to note a few things.

First of, I noticed a few skin issues. The horses of Edessan and Antioch knights arent wearing the proper cloth. Knights of Antioch have the jerusalem cloth for their horses and the Edessan knights that of acre. (I believe the burgundy color was from acre at least)

I also noticed the generals bodyguard looks like the english bodyguard. This should really be fixed, I think this should be Knights of Jerusalem, or the standard bodyguard but with the proper colors which could be copied from the Papal States. To prevent confusion with the papal states, I reccomend to use the Jerusalem knights for this, if even just for appearance and not status.

So far the bug report, now to move on to what I would like to see different.

I noticed that the teutonic knights and the templar knights get full plate upgrades, I would advice to use the kingdoms versions with their own horses as well. They shouldnt get upgrades, they already have a strong roster, they dont need plate armor. same goes for the knights templar faction.

Considering the roster, I find it a little odd that dismounted templar knights are not included. A few more units that are truly Jerusalem units would be good as well. Maybe some Muslim units?

I am truly loving this faction, but when the bugs are fixed and a few additions are added to the roster they would be simply perfect in my eyes. I truly love it that five knight orders are represented in the roster, dont ever change that.

Well maybe add knights of Acre...

**Inhuman One** · October 20, 2007, 12:35 PM

I noticed another bug after playing them a bit, some units on the roster of the custom battles arent included in the campaign. Edessan knights I know for certain and I believe more.

And last but not least, Mounted Sargeants are available at the lowest stables, but are not available at any higher form of stables. I am sure that we will often use knights over sargeants when available, but I do like to keep the choice.

**Chim** · October 20, 2007, 01:19 PM

This belongs in the Bug report thread for 5.0.

**guck** · October 20, 2007, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by wonkuruben

This belongs in the Bug report thread for 5.0.

what? don't you have anything better to do than police the forum? i should count how many times you do this. who cares that he posted that here?!

**Caesar Clivus** · October 20, 2007, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by guck

what? don't you have anything better to do than police the forum? i should count how many times you do this. who cares that he posted that here?!

No you're right. It's much better that reports of bugs are all over the forum rather than in one place where KK can see them all and make sure they get fixed.

**Chim** · October 21, 2007, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by guck

what? don't you have anything better to do than police the forum? i should count how many times you do this. who cares that he posted that here?!

Thank you Caesar Clivus for replying on this one.

Guck
Maybe I do "police" this forum, but I always stay polite and I do not say anything without thinking about it. This simply belongs in the bug thread so that King Kong can find his rest looking in that thread. It would be hard for him looking all over the place for bug reports. And "policing" is not the only thing I do here.

I am sorry if I in any way insulted you our made you feel uncomfortable. It was not ment that way.

**fieldmarshal** · October 21, 2007, 04:26 AM

The Kingdom of Jerusalem faction is awesome, i am looking forward to playing them after my Mongol campaign, i am also surprised that dismounted templar knights were not included, probably because of balance issues, I guess they already have two good units of sword infantry. It is also good that Egypt has a good unit roster in 5.0, so they are not a easy pushover for kingdom of Jerusalem.

**Inhuman One** · October 21, 2007, 10:36 AM

If the entire post would be read it would be obvious its not only bugs but also suggestions. The Kingdom of Jerusalem faction is the subject and not just the bugs.

I personly do think that dismounted templars would be more logical than dismounted knights of Antioch. Knights of Acre might be more logical even since at the start they dont own Antioch even.

Oh,next to Edessan knights I saw that the canons of the sepulchar arent recruitable either.

**fieldmarshal** · October 21, 2007, 01:45 PM

I havent played Kingdom of Jersusalem et, so how do orders work for this faction?. Is it the same as every other catholic faction, i.e one order per faction?.
Is there a way to add a certain order to a settlement from the start of the game? We know in the Holy lands, certain castles and settlements were owned and operated by individual orders.
So starting off, the Jerusalem faction would already have different orders in differnt castles, like acre could have the templar order, and karak would have the hospitaller order, And the orders would have their default units, i.e mounted and dismounted knights.
I dont think any Knights should be removed from the Jerusalem faction, because the knights is what makes this faction unique, you had knights from all over christandom.

**Inhuman One** · October 22, 2007, 04:48 AM

These knights are available from the normal roster, constables of jerusalem are only available in Jerusalem but they dont seem much stronger than others actually so this might be a bit off.

**King Kong** · October 22, 2007, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Inhuman One

I had been looking forward to playing this faction in a grand campaign, I like how there are many different knight orders included, I like to sort of have factions in my factions.

But, I do want to note a few things.

First of, I noticed a few skin issues. The horses of Edessan and Antioch knights arent wearing the proper cloth. Knights of Antioch have the jerusalem cloth for their horses and the Edessan knights that of acre. (I believe the burgundy color was from acre at least)

I also noticed the generals bodyguard looks like the english bodyguard. This should really be fixed, I think this should be Knights of Jerusalem, or the standard bodyguard but with the proper colors which could be copied from the Papal States. To prevent confusion with the papal states, I reccomend to use the Jerusalem knights for this, if even just for appearance and not status.

So far the bug report, now to move on to what I would like to see different.

I noticed that the teutonic knights and the templar knights get full plate upgrades, I would advice to use the kingdoms versions with their own horses as well. They shouldnt get upgrades, they already have a strong roster, they dont need plate armor. same goes for the knights templar faction.

Considering the roster, I find it a little odd that dismounted templar knights are not included. A few more units that are truly Jerusalem units would be good as well. Maybe some Muslim units?

I am truly loving this faction, but when the bugs are fixed and a few additions are added to the roster they would be simply perfect in my eyes. I truly love it that five knight orders are represented in the roster, dont ever change that.

Well maybe add knights of Acre...

Hi inhuman one,

Some very good suggestions! I think I have already implemented most of them for the next patch...

**Boiler** · October 22, 2007, 02:22 PM

great to hear from you and that you are working on a new version.
But i hope you leave the armor upgrades. I think the upgrades are importend, because you can customize/upgrade your units (together with the experience and the weapon upgrade) from normal to "veteran" with better equipment. I really enjoy this element of the game.
I see the balance point of Inhuman One and would suggest to decrease the defense.

My last point: if we take the armor upgrades out, the skins for the upgraded units would be wastet. what a shame

**Inhuman One** · October 23, 2007, 04:27 AM

Thanks King Kong

Now I am really looking forward to the patch.

**Inhuman One** · December 22, 2007, 09:53 AM

Well Its been some time but I like to reopen this thread again.

There are still suggestions to be made, and a few problems.

Well lets start with the problems:

-Knights of Antioch dont have the proper horses.

-generals bodyguard looks like the vanilla english bodyguard when upgraded.

-At jerusalem two units can be created exclusively, Canons of the Holy Sepulchar and Constables of Jerusalem.
Both units really arent that powerfull to limit them to just this city, the roster is small enough as it is, and the constables require a city, and the canons of the holy sepulchar a castle. And Jerusalem is too big to be able to make it a castle. Thus making it impossible to recruit the canons of the holy sepulchar.

So far the problems, now lets move on to further suggestions.

I think that the kingdom of Jerusalem needs to rely too much on templar units. Its even impossible to field a capable army without templar units since the only spearmen are the templar sargeants.

They also can train very few militia units, and the pisan and genoese sailors, and the arquebusiers cant act as a city garrison. This leaves only templar sargeants as a free garrison.

I think that a good solution here would be to give them spear militia and also archer or crossbow militia. This way they could use the somewhat weaker spear militia instead of templar sargeants, and the archer militia could be a muslim version to represent the muslim citizens.

Maybe it would also be better to remove edessan and antioch units and replace them with Hospitaler units, since they would be more common around a larger area.