My strategy for defending a settlement with a smaller force

[SonOfCrusader76]

The main thing to remember is if your force is much smaller than the enemy's, don't try to hold the walls! If you take the attitude of 'YOUUUUU SHALL NOT....PAAAAAAAAAS!' , you'll find that the force of the enemy will be able to just push right pass you. What I do is set up small 'roadblocks' of infantry including several up the main path towards the square. Don't just concentrate on this path, because the AI occasionally send a few units along different roads and come out behind you (unless you can see the enemy charging their entire army up the main path). If you have a couple of spare units, place them in some side streets, so you can ambush the enemy walking up the main path. After you've set up your roadblocks in the main path, place some archers behind them. The enemy will have to try to fight past all your infantry, while being showered with fire (use fire arrows to encourage them to run away). I've won many battles that I really should've lost, using this tactic. Try to retain a couple of cavalry units, so when the enemy are nicely funnelled in for the fight against the infantry, you can sneak your horsemen round the back and....SMASH!

If you've managed to destroy the AI's towers and they have to resort to only using the front gate, use three or four units to keep them there for as long as possible, one from each side and let your archers concentrate their fire on this little pocket. You'll kill loads before they break out and then they'll have to cope with your roadblocks!

As a last resort, if you only have a couple of units of spearmen left and the enemy are composed of cavalry, use schiltrom (spelling?) Even spear militia can hold horses up for a long time and kill loads using this formation.


Now a quick question: Is the AI when besieging Fortresses or higher broken? Whenever I fall back to the main square, the enemy just sit there, instead of going back to get their ladders (you can take them down from the walls) or rams and trying to get into the central square. It seems that if they haven't got artillery, then they're incapable of taking anything with more than one set of walls if you decide to fall back to the main square!
If, like me, you have unlimited time in your battles, this can be bloody annoying!

Does anyone know how to fix this (can one of the descr. txt files be edited)? Or do any of the combat mods like Darth's do anything for it?

[SonOfCrusader76]

Ooops, I posted this in the wrong section, it was supposed to go in the original MTW2 section.

[uanime5]

I've only used that strategy once, when I took a village with a small force (4 Byzantine Spearmen, 2 Trebizond archers, 1 General) and the enemy then attacked me with a larger force. Since I would lose in a staight battle I needed to fight defensively.

To fight the enemy I put two units of spearmen in guard mode at the end of each of the two entrances into the village that were nearest the enemy (the enemy didn't think to go round these) and the archers and general's bodyguard behind them (the spearmen were at the end so that the enemy had to go down the street and could flank me) .

When the battle started I stayed put and waited for the enemy to come to me. The enemy sent most of its infantry towards one group of spearmen and a smaller groups to the second group of spearmen. While the smaller group was fighting my spearmen I moved my general outside the village and behind them. Then I charged into them, easily beating these units. Since the enemy didn't send any more units to the second group I sent it up to reinforce the first group. I then had my general charge into the remaining enemy infantry (with some mixed results since they weren't all fighting the spearmen and did a lot of damage to the general's bodyguard). Eventually my archers reduced the enemy infantry to a small group and I had my spearmen move to attack and crush them.

However the battle was not over yet. I then sent my general to sneak up on the siege weapons (I remember there was a ballista or two) the enemy had brought but decided not to use (if they had my soldiers would have been massacared if they been standing guard at choke points since they're a large target). Once I attacked their siege weapons I had my infantry approach and help kill the remaining soldiers. This earned me an Heroic Victory.

[Valhalla9]

The main thing to remember is if your force is much smaller than the enemy's, don't try to hold the walls! If you take the attitude of 'YOUUUUU SHALL NOT....PAAAAAAAAAS!' , you'll find that the force of the enemy will be able to just push right pass you. What I do is set up small 'roadblocks' of infantry including several up the main path towards the square.

I have gone completely against using this tactic. Unless all I have is an extremely small force consisting solely of 1-2 cavalry units and one or two infantry, which is impending doom no matter what you do, I meet every enemy at the walls. Having an infantry/missile unit or two at the walls is helpful when the enemy closes in. It forces them to deal with arrow/ballista/cannon fire from my towers. Just having ballista towers can make a huge difference, if the AI has no equipment to destroy them.

I played the Teutonic Campaign as the Danish. During one siege with Novgorod as the attackers, I was extremely outnumbered something like 950 to like 300. My army consisted of three units of full strength spearmen with a couple experience each, three units of very understrengthed Dismounted Nobles with excellent experience, a unit of understrenghed Huscarls (good axe-wielding cavalry) and my General unit, "Haakon the Saint" (General's Bodyguard) who has a good 6-7 Stars commanding the defence of a settlement. I also had two units of Norse War Clerics, both understrengthed at around 5-15 horsemen each.

Novgorod had about 5 units of Berdiche Axemen (heavily armored professional infantry). Two of their axemen units were on siege towers and I had the three 1/3 strength dismounted nobles with good experience meet them at the walls. They had many, many units Dismounted Dvor (Armored archers with good hand-to-hand skills) and some mounted and dismounted Boyar sons (good cavalry and infantry). They threw some cannon fodder in there too. When their army closed in and broke through the gate, I had my 3 units of spearmen on defend mode meet them. Defend mode is extremely important, they will die much quicker and waver, then rout if they are facing professional infantry without defend mode. While the spearmen were defending, hot oil was pouring on their highly concentrated force, amid ballista fire from my towers. They kept their General unit towards the back of their column. My spearmen and Huscarls/War Clerics held well while taking losses. The Dismounted Nobles on my walls routed both units of Berdiche Axemen, they began running down the towers. Their General Unit charged through and soon after hot oil at the gates killed their General. Their dismounted Dvor began to rout, leaving their Berdiche axemen and the Dismounted Boyar sons to continue the attack. I had my General's Bodyguard start fighting. By this time my first two lines of spearmen were either very tired or exhausted, so I rotated the third to the front. The remaining Dismounted Boyar Sons who were not killed by oil or ballista fire then routed. I sent my General's Bodyguard, Huscarls and War Clerics to run down the units that routed, and my remaining unit of almost fresh spearmen finished off their last unit of tired Berdiche Axemen. A couple units broke their rout and attempted a rally, but a charge from my General's Bodyguard and Huscarls forced them to flee again. In the end, only some dismounted Dvor managed to escape. My army was greatly reduced, but it was a victory.

Lessons I learned from this battle

1. Never underestimate the power of "defend" mode for Spearmen.
2. Ballista Towers rock
3. Hot oil rocks
4. Keep your enemy at the gates for as long as you can.
5. Rotate your main battle line. An exhausted soldier is a dead one.

I would like to have seen what would have happened if their General didn't die halfway through the battle. I entered this battle thinking they were going to steamroll through me.

[roov2]

I meet every enemy at the walls. Having an infantry/missile unit or two at the walls is helpful when the enemy closes in. It forces them to deal with arrow/ballista/cannon fire from my towers. Just having ballista towers can make a huge difference, if the AI has no equipment to destroy them.

I agree with this. I always defend in this way, nearly always successfully.

I find that it is best to keep the enemy outside of the city walls for as long as possible whilst the missile units work their fiery wonders.

To defend when massively outnumbered the bare minimum needed (which I keep in every city) is 2 spearmen units, 2 missile units (preferably crossbowmen or cossack musketeers) and a general or cavalry unit. Depending on the strength of your units and those sieging, this is often enough to repel the most determined of enemies.

Basically (as so many others have said) put the spearmen in guard mode in front of the gate the enemy is trying to get through....ballista towers are a beautiful thing and cannon towers are a dream come true.

Watch them soak up the pain and they will more than likely rout. If not straight away then patience is the key....getting through the gates is a killer as it's a bottleneck.

When they do rout, send the horsies after them....

edit: Why do enemies when I siege their settlements, just watch me smash the gate down and trot up to the square before defending themselves?? Bad AI or just bad tactics?

[Morghost]

I was playing as Milan and had taken a city in the Middle East. The Mongols showed up and attacked me with more than two full stacks, and I had just less than a stack defending. I tried to defend at the walls, but they had rocket launchers and I lost terribly. As soon as the enemy came running in, my (mostly militia) units started routing and were mostly destroyed right away.

Then I decided to reload and try a different strategy. I placed all my units in the central square, with the spears defending the incoming paths and the crossbow units behind them. After the Mongols broke down the wall, they came charging in, with their cavalry leading the way. The spear militia handled them OK, and since they were in the central square, none of my units could rout. I killed 4 or 5 generals. Then the melee units came at me, and they did send some units around to enter the central square from different paths. But my units were able to hold them off. It turned into a very long battle, with almost all the fighting going on at the entrance to the central square. At the very end, I only had about 30-40 pavise crossbows that had run out of arrows. All my other units were dead. The Mongols still had a few units and outnumbered me considerably. I had my crossbows at the opposite end of the central plaza. When the enemy units came into the plaza, just before getting far enough to engage my crossbows, they would get scared and rout. Usually, they would regroup after they had run a ways, and come back only to rout again. I ended up winning as time ran out.

[SonOfCrusader76]

It works, doesn't it? And even if you lose the battle, you'll kill so many of them that taking the settlement back will be easy.

One other strategy concerning defending the gate: Instead of just crowding the immediate entrance with infantry, form a sort of defensive 'pocket', with one unit in front of the gate, but not right at the gate, have them a little way back, one to the left and one to the right (God, I wish I knew how to post screenies without having to mess around with clipboard). When the enemy come in, press them. They'll be stuck at the gate for ages and in the meantime, you can shower them with flaming arrows! As someone else said, rotate your line if you get a chance, so the tired troops can take a break.

Edit: It's a similar principle to the Battle of Agincourt when King Henry moved his army forwards, so they had the forest on both sides. This negated the French's numerical superiority, as only the front line could attack and they were unable to flank Henry's army.

[_TheChevalier_]

The strategy of using a defensive pocket it's useful, most of the time I use it, speaking about kingdoms expansion, the pocket is very good when playing as Ireland in Britannia, especially if your settlement has 1 or 2 units of Muire, with their 2 hitpoints they are reliable for the defensive task. In crusades campain, specially for Byzantines is to use the pack, supporting it with the mighty firethrowers, as for Muslims, the Hashshashins would make an equal task as Irish Muire's. If you use 2 hitpoints troops, the efectiveness of the pocket will be increased.

[Internazionale]

Well in Vanilla M2TW, I defended Toulouse as the British against 3 crusading armies ( Yes I was ex-communicated) of Poland, Lithuania and Venice. I utterly destroyed them and the general, which was a captain did not receive any reward!
I had a entire army, and aah the Longbowmen and Yeomen Longbow Archers saved my life! The crusaders had a lot of cavalry, so I decided to put a lot of sharpened stakes right in front of the gates. And oh my god out of their maybe 2000 horse men just 50 got through! And the town center gives your men a huge advantage, they will NEVER rout and will fight to the death if necessary.

Hope this was useful information, I'm off to play some TW

[SonOfCrusader76]

Good idea about the stakes!

[Valhalla9]

This is a typical formation I have for defending the walls. Three units of Spearmen on defend mode, with professional infantry and missile troops on the walls. Cavalry stand ready to ride down those who rout.

But then again, if you have cannon towers fairly all of this is trivial In this battle I ended up routing a 700+ man Novgorodian Army at a loss of seven handgunners and a couple huscarls, who took a direct cannon ball from one of my towers as they ran down the enemy. It was so unfair it was comical.

[SonOfCrusader76]

Yep, as soon as cannon come along, all siege tactics go out of the window!
Can you tell me how to take and post screenies, without having to mess around posting them to imageshack and the like first?

[Valhalla9]

1. During your game, hit the "Print Screen" key (which is at the top right section of the keyboard, above "Insert" on my keyboard). Once you do this a folder named "tgas" is created in your "C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War" directory. The screenshots are in this folder.

2. But you can't just upload these screenshots, they are TGA format and 2.25MB in size. You need a program like Photoshop to save the images as JPG so they are not so huge in size. Once this is done you need to upload the JPG image to an image server like Imageshack.us, I don't think you can upload photos to the TWCenter.net server. Imageshack is easy, trust me its no problem. Just upload it, copy the url, and when you are posting hit the "Insert image" icon and paste in the url. That's it.

[SonOfCrusader76]

Cheers for that.

[zayanm]

Whenever I fall back to the main square, the enemy just sit there, instead of going back to get their ladders (you can take them down from the walls)

Hey I did not know this was possible, how do I do it?

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

i just defeated over 1000 Portuguese with around 300 Moors, four millita units and two family members using the millita troops to block the roads and the generals to attack any units that get away, at one point the city centre was captured by three units of enemy troops, I had to use my generals to mop up these guys, was a pretty intense fight, One of my generals had over 200 kills

[Nebuchadnezzar]

You can also defend a settlement against a full stack with as little as 2 militia units and a ballista if the enemy don't have catapults or trebuchets.

Set up a defensive pocket around the gate using the two units with your most experienced unit forming a schiltrom formation in the centre and another unit in standard formation to one side. The opposite side of the pocket keep open. Set all your units to guard mode. On the open side but a fair way back set your ballista to fire flame but turn off auto-fire. The centre schiltrom unit seems to glue enemy units to it and protect the ballista. If its too close to the gate then it may not be able to avoid being drawn into mallee and unable to fire. Also units set to schiltrom seem to hold together for much longer and tend not to rout until they have only a few units left.

When the enemy storms through the gates get your ballista to fire into the mass. As soon as the enemy general comes through the gate concentrate ballista fire on him. Usually 3-4 rounds should do it before the general is killed followed by mass rout. There are a few formation variations that also work.

If the enemy has ladders or seige towers then another unit or 2 on the walls will be required.

Works 8 times out of 10 but maybe not for Mongols.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

britania campaign : wen playing norway i have to defend my fortresses and city s against the scots batlle s are always like 600 men for me and 2300 for the scotish i just defend the gate place soms axmen infront of it one unit of horseman on the side one unit of norse archers and 2 crossbow militia place archers and crossbows on the walls and let them kill most troops the axeman cover the gate with the horseman and the boiling oil will do the trick :d

[Valdamar]

All you need is a catapult to paste them with fire as they're trapped in your defensive pocket.

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

dam... just got my ass kicked defending jerusalem against a crusade, my roadblocks got crushed and i lost my faction leader.

bah! ill just re-take the city and kill everyone