doubts about hellenic cataphracts

[pcp]

i have some doubts about historical truth of the hellenic cataphracts
if you see the raffigurations on osprey's book about seleucid army they are differents respect yours units, as to plutarch describes they in daphanae's parade!
second me are most historically accuracy the RTR and Res Gestae seleucid cataphracts's units

about the hetairoi kataphraktoi!! i never seen they in a historywarfare's book or on internet! from what historical source you take this model?
whatever is a great mod!

[svramj]

yup you got it right...

[Zaknafien]

well, using osprey or the internets as your sources is probably not a good thing. I'll get our proper historian in here to address your concerns though

[Forgus]

yup you got it right...

Take a look at your avatar, man...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Take a look at your avatar, man...

And sig.

[florin80]

The RTR 7 sig?

[abou]

The RTR 7 sig?

Yeah... we're all sort of on edge due to the massive amounts of complaints we've received for EB 1.0. And so seeing an RTR dev showing up saying, "yup you got it right...," kind of gets to us. Especially since I have no idea what the RTR cataphracts look like and nothing has been revealed for RTR 7; therefore, no ability to discuss the matter.

[paulus]

"Yup you got it right?" What is that supposed to mean?

As to the OP, the description in Polybius of the Daphne parade don't exactly say much about what they looked like, and I was unaware Plutarch even discussed it. I haven't seen the Osprey drawings, but I'm not much concerned, since we used archaeological finds in constructing the appearance of our kataphraktoi. I'd be interested in seeing RTR 7.0 kataphraktoi, and how they compare to ours and to whatever the Osprey ones look like. I doubt the variation would be as great as you seem to imply.

The hetairoi kataphraktoi are based on an unpublished relief discovered since the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.

[Urnamma]

i have some doubts about historical truth of the hellenic cataphracts
if you see the raffigurations on osprey's book about seleucid army they are differents respect yours units, as to plutarch describes they in daphanae's parade!
second me are most historically accuracy the RTR and Res Gestae seleucid cataphracts's units

about the hetairoi kataphraktoi!! i never seen they in a historywarfare's book or on internet! from what historical source you take this model?
whatever is a great mod!

Is there a particular language you'd be more comfortable talking about this in?

As we've stated, Osprey is not the most reliable source, nor is the internet (unless you want to read about how George W. Bush is connected with the Illuminati and Israel lobby in a fiendish plot to destroy all chickens, so that his royal/kennedy/satanic roots can spread, thus causing our alien lizard masters to reveal themselves).

Our hellenic cataphracts are largely based on a combination of archaeology and careful textual reconstruction. Not on Osprey or the internet.

[florin80]

I keep seing references to Osprey in relation to the seleucid/hellenic cataphracts. Now, I`m curious...what Osprey title is that? I was not aware of any Osprey book(that has illustrations) dedicated to the greek world after Alexander. Let alone, the seleucids.
EDIT: unles it is the one on parthians...

[The Persian Cataphract]

Obviously he refers to the Montvert-published piece written by Nick Sekunda, which is like an Osprey; While many Osprey titles are worthwhile and helpful to summarize scholarship, mainly through helpful sources and references, many if not most of our units are derived from written scholarship, archaeology, journals; We have ultimately concluded that history inevitably involves a myriad of similar outlines, perspectives and interpretation. When it comes to rather feudal models on high nobility, which applies both to Iranian and Hellenes who relied on wealth and availability of equipment, we make use of valid combinations fitting under categories such as consistency and cohesiveness. For late units we have taken some liberty in allowing staunch, enthusiastic players to reward themselves by making them available after certain reforms; The rationale behind this is that we have colloquially agreed that history is far from a linear concept.

Unfortunately much of this scholarship is not readily available to the public; The Hetairoi Kataphraktoi for instance is a product from some quite recent archaeology, and care must be taken to appreciate Afghanistan's recent past on scholarly enterprises. To many, the Hetairoi Kataphraktoi will appear to be highly exquisite, almost a complete deviation of the classical cataphracts, however given the unique situation and culture of the Graeco-Bactrians, and the newly found evidence and scholarship on the Graeco-Bactrians it appears to be more than plausible. We had this same argument about the Grivpanvar, in which many complained that it was quite similar to the Dura-Europos grafito which is normally dated outside the time-frame. Suffice to say, the argument of "late units" appears to me as plausible.

[maksimus]

Obviously he refers to the Montvert-published piece written by Nick Sekunda, which is like an Osprey; While many Osprey titles are worthwhile and helpful to summarize scholarship, mainly through helpful sources and references, many if not most of our units are derived from written scholarship, archaeology, journals; We have ultimately concluded that history inevitably involves a myriad of similar outlines, perspectives and interpretation. When it comes to rather feudal models on high nobility, which applies both to Iranian and Hellenes who relied on wealth and availability of equipment, we make use of valid combinations fitting under categories such as consistency and cohesiveness. For late units we have taken some liberty in allowing staunch, enthusiastic players to reward themselves by making them available after certain reforms; The rationale behind this is that we have colloquially agreed that history is far from a linear concept.

Unfortunately much of this scholarship is not readily available to the public; The Hetairoi Kataphraktoi for instance is a product from some quite recent archaeology, and care must be taken to appreciate Afghanistan's recent past on scholarly enterprises. To many, the Hetairoi Kataphraktoi will appear to be highly exquisite, almost a complete deviation of the classical cataphracts, however given the unique situation and culture of the Graeco-Bactrians, and the newly found evidence and scholarship on the Graeco-Bactrians it appears to be more than plausible. We had this same argument about the Grivpanvar, in which many complained that it was quite similar to the Dura-Europos grafito which is normally dated outside the time-frame. Suffice to say, the argument of "late units" appears to me as plausible.

You made this mod so popular, -- no hard feelings for other EB members, they did good job here... only if 'things' were not so expensive

[pcp]

don't angry!
mine is only question!
with internet i intended say all archeological sites based on hellenistic age!

i know only the osprey books because they are most famous!

in italy don't easy to find specialized books on ancient army!

[pcp]

the book is the seleucid army 168-145 b.c. by Nick sekunda!

[abou]

the book is the seleucid army 168-145 b.c. by Nick sekunda!

Yeah... Sekunda doesn't have a lot of "street cred" in EB.

[DR. Hobo. PHD.]

Is there a particular language you'd be more comfortable talking about this in?

As we've stated, Osprey is not the most reliable source, nor is the internet (unless you want to read about how George W. Bush is connected with the Illuminati and Israel lobby in a fiendish plot to destroy all chickens, so that his royal/kennedy/satanic roots can spread, thus causing our alien lizard masters to reveal themselves).

Our hellenic cataphracts are largely based on a combination of archaeology and careful textual reconstruction. Not on Osprey or the internet.

(he knows too much!)