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  1. #1

    Default Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment

    The United States government did something that was wrong—deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist.
    —President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997

    For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”

    Using Human Beings as Laboratory Animals

    The true nature of the experiment had to be kept from the subjects to ensure their cooperation. The sharecroppers' grossly disadvantaged lot in life made them easy to manipulate. Pleased at the prospect of free medical care—almost none of them had ever seen a doctor before—these unsophisticated and trusting men became the pawns in what James Jones, author of the excellent history on the subject, Bad Blood, identified as “the longest nontherapeutic experiment on human beings in medical history.”

    The study was meant to discover how syphilis affected blacks as opposed to whites—the theory being that whites experienced more neurological complications from syphilis whereas blacks were more susceptible to cardiovascular damage. How this knowledge would have changed clinical treatment of syphilis is uncertain. Although the PHS touted the study as one of great scientific merit, from the outset its actual benefits were hazy. It took almost forty years before someone involved in the study took a hard and honest look at the end results, reporting that “nothing learned will prevent, find, or cure a single case of infectious syphilis or bring us closer to our basic mission of controlling venereal disease in the United States.” When the experiment was brought to the attention of the media in 1972, news anchor Harry Reasoner described it as an experiment that “used human beings as laboratory animals in a long and inefficient study of how long it takes syphilis to kill someone.”

    A Heavy Price in the Name of Bad Science

    By the end of the experiment, 28 of the men had died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis. How had these men been induced to endure a fatal disease in the name of science? To persuade the community to support the experiment, one of the original doctors admitted it “was necessary to carry on this study under the guise of a demonstration and provide treatment.” At first, the men were prescribed the syphilis remedies of the day—bismuth, neoarsphenamine, and mercury—but in such small amounts that only 3 percent showed any improvement. These token doses of medicine were good public relations and did not interfere with the true aims of the study. Eventually, all syphilis treatment was replaced with “pink medicine”—aspirin. To ensure that the men would show up for a painful and potentially dangerous spinal tap, the PHS doctors misled them with a letter full of promotional hype: “Last Chance for Special Free Treatment.” The fact that autopsies would eventually be required was also concealed. As a doctor explained, “If the colored population becomes aware that accepting free hospital care means a post-mortem, every darky will leave Macon County…” Even the Surgeon General of the United States participated in enticing the men to remain in the experiment, sending them certificates of appreciation after 25 years in the study.
    How different was this compared to what the Germans did to the Jews and the Japanese to the Chinese?


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  2. #2

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    We weren't conducting a systematic genocide.

    It wasn't very nice, but it is no where comparable to the Holocaust. If you want to try and badmouth America's history, use our treatment of the Indians. That is a lot worse than this.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Quote Originally Posted by Sétanta View Post
    We weren't conducting a systematic genocide.

    It wasn't very nice, but it is no where comparable to the Holocaust. If you want to try and badmouth America's history, use our treatment of the Indians. That is a lot worse than this.
    Why use that as an example?

    Our treatment of black slaves beats either.

    EDIT: Ugh. "our".

    Their.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

  4. #4

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Slavery was an evil institution, but most slaves were treated generally humanely. Nobody treated the Indians very nicely at all. Nobody cared what happened to them, nobody cared about the cultural genocide and systematic destruction of the tribes and their lives.

    Not that slavery was much better.
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    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Quote Originally Posted by Sétanta View Post
    Slavery was an evil institution, but most slaves were treated generally humanely.
    You're kidding me, right?

    Nobody treated the Indians very nicely at all.
    True, but at least they had a chance. At least they got a fight.

    Nobody cared what happened to them, nobody cared about the cultural genocide and systematic destruction of the tribes and their lives.
    Same for the slaves.

    Not that slavery was much better.
    It wasn't better at all. I've read plenty of accounts of slave ships and Indian massacres.

    The slave ships were worse, of course, the fact that they were on ****ing ships has to be taken into account. Being at sea back then wasn't fun.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

  6. #6

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Slave ships were probably the worst thing we ever did.

    As for slaves being treated better than Indians, that is absolutely true. Slaves were valuable property, and killing off slaves for no good reason was dumb. Oh sure, beatings and worse happened, but a slave owner would generally not go overboard. Indians were just a nuisance with no economic benefit to keeping alive, and people did whatever they wanted to the Indians.
    The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be used until they try and take it away.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Quote Originally Posted by Sétanta View Post
    We weren't conducting a systematic genocide.

    It wasn't very nice, but it is no where comparable to the Holocaust. If you want to try and badmouth America's history, use our treatment of the Indians. That is a lot worse than this.
    whilst its nice of you to spread the information to people like me who had never heard the story, I do not think identifying the case with the holocaust will gain you any credibility.
    Im talking about the experiments done by the Germans to their prisoners and the Japanese to their Chinese prisoners. Im not referring to the holocaust in general.
    Last edited by jankren; October 15, 2007 at 11:09 PM.


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  8. #8

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Well it was certainly different to the Holocaust considering the Americans actually wanted some good to come of it and also the numbers comparison comes to mind. My knowledge of the Japanese treatment of the Chinese is lacking.

    Nevertheless this is a shockingly inhumane action, one I had no idea of. To think that it was going on only a few decades ago is certainly a sobering thought.

    whilst its nice of you to spread the information to people like me who had never heard the story, I do not think identifying the case with the holocaust will gain you any credibility.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Quote Originally Posted by rez View Post
    Well it was certainly different to the Holocaust considering the Americans actually wanted some good to come of it and also the numbers comparison comes to mind. My knowledge of the Japanese treatment of the Chinese is lacking.

    Nevertheless this is a shockingly inhumane action, one I had no idea of. To think that it was going on only a few decades ago is certainly a sobering thought.

    whilst its nice of you to spread the information to people like me who had never heard the story, I do not think identifying the case with the holocaust will gain you any credibility.
    Maybe not the Tuskegee Experiment...

    But...ummm...errr...Did You Know: It's been estimated that more blacks died in the trips across the Atlantic, during the slave trade, than Jews in the Holacaust...there's even a word for it: Maafa

    Do not forget this was at least 300-500 years(depending on who you ask)...of this type of...treatment

    ...I find it interesting that people(Americans) didn't know this...

    :hmmm: ...now if we could find some obscure quote from the Bible I wonder if we could get our own country and get billions of dollars per year in welfare too...I mean aid...
    Last edited by morteduzionism; October 24, 2007 at 03:41 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Yes, but this was not the Atlantic route that sent them to the US, this was the route that sent them to Hispaniola and other Caribbean colonies, mostly held by the French and Dutch. And I would catagorize the abominable conditions that black slaves had to endure on those suger plantations among the holocaust. I also commend Louverture (sadly two and a half centuries too late) for the magnificant and just rebellion against the French, British and French again. It's a shame that modern day Haiti is in such economic strife, they diserve to be accounted among the best. Or at least Cuba...
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Quote Originally Posted by morteduzionism View Post
    Maybe not the Tuskegee Experiment...

    But...ummm...errr...Did You Know: It's been estimated that more blacks died in the trips across the Atlantic, during the slave trade, than Jews in the Holacaust...there's even a word for it: Maafa

    Do not forget this was at least 300-500 years(depending on who you ask)...of this type of...treatment

    ...I find it interesting that people(Americans) didn't know this...

    :hmmm: ...now if we could find some obscure quote from the Bible I wonder if we could get our own country and get billions of dollars per year in welfare too...I mean aid...
    The deaths of the Atlantic Passage are at about 3 Million.

    The Tuskeegee Experiments were a crime against humanity. (They also performed radiation experiments on mentally handicapped children up until the sixties). How do we know these experiments still aren't going on. How do we know that the cartoon The Boondocks (which obscenely essentializes race) is not one of these experiments? In any case, we need accountablity and a respect for history that includes the U.S. Governmental recognition of the horrible race crimes i perpetrated and profited from.


    The Jews wrote the book that became the main fetish of most of the people (Christians and Muslims) in the world who believe in God. That's why they get all attention and the money they get, because it's the only place that's close to all the oil that's actually friendly with us. Write a story that spawns world's two largest religions and the found a country that strategically sits among those who control the most treasured natural resources in the world, and you'll be on your way.
    Last edited by Oswald von Wolkenstein; October 24, 2007 at 04:07 PM.
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  12. #12
    Bokks's Avatar Thinking outside Myself
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    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    I'm confused, Oswald, you're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist.
    I can tell you right now that the US no longer performs radiation expiraments on human beings, dogs or semi-intelligent plants...

    I swear that on my third eye, twelfth toe and glowing orange bottom...

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    The deaths of the Atlantic Passage are at about 3 Million.
    I don't want to argue/debate you on numbers, but where did you get those?

    While there was slavery throughout World History, never has it reached such an epic proportion as during the Middle Passage/ transatlantic slave trade. At this time, no one knows exactly how many Africans died at sea during the Middle Passage experience. Estimates for the total number of Africans lost to the slave trade range from 25 to 50 million.

    I italicized "estimates" to emphasize that it is just that. A guess. But 3 million!? Over 3 centuries!? Versus 11 million in @5 years!?......I don't know about you, but I know which one 'sounds' more believable.

    How do we know that the cartoon The Boondocks (which obscenely essentializes race) is not one of these experiments?
    whatchutalkinboutwillis!?

    Yes, but this was not the Atlantic route that sent them to the US, this was the route that sent them to Hispaniola and other Caribbean colonies, mostly held by the French and Dutch.
    ummm...where do you think the 'slaves' in South Carolina came from? The Caribbean.

    From what I learned the colonies preferred 'seasoned' slaves, as opposed to F.O.B(fresh off the boat), which they got from the Carribbean. Yes, slaves were shipped directly to the Carribbean but their final destination was usually/generally the future U.S. of A.

    Just to use 'Roots' as an example: slave owners/buyers didn't want Kunta Kinte they wanted Toby.

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    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Quote Originally Posted by morteduzionism View Post
    Estimates for the total number of Africans lost to the slave trade range from 25 to 50 million.
    I believe that was the whole number of slaves sent throught the whole time, since that is an extremely large number. Since populations in the 13 colonies at the time of the revolution was like, what, 2 million, that would mean more slaves died on the voyage than people lived in the colonies. Many slaves died, but not that many.

    Quote Originally Posted by morteduzionism View Post
    ummm...where do you think the 'slaves' in South Carolina came from? The Caribbean.

    From what I learned the colonies preferred 'seasoned' slaves, as opposed to F.O.B(fresh off the boat), which they got from the Carribbean. Yes, slaves were shipped directly to the Carribbean but their final destination was usually/generally the future U.S. of A.

    Just to use 'Roots' as an example: slave owners/buyers didn't want Kunta Kinte they wanted Toby.
    Slave owners from the Carolinas and elsewhere wanted slaved born on Hispaniola and other caribbean colonies, due to the belief that had their parents survived long enough to have children, then they must have been strong. Slaves shipped to Hispaniola generally died on Hispaniola, it was their children that could "look forward" to the life as a slave in the US, which actually was a great deal better. Not nearly good, but not as bad.
    Now, yes, some African slaves did get sent directly to the 13 colonies, but not very many. Because of the terrible conditions in the Caribbean that lost slaves at such a rate they needed a constant supply of new ones, and the costs of slave born do to the fact that they generally spoke English and were more docile were higher, a price Carolina colonists were willing to pay.

    And I've never seen Roots! I love all the actors in it, though, especially the guy who played Kunte Kinte, so I have been meaning to see it.
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    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    How different was this compared to what the Germans did to the Jews and the Japanese to the Chinese?
    Ummm...very different...

    Yeah this isn't good but you're thread title is either intentionally misleading or you're understanding the article wrong - the scientists didn't give them syphilis...they already had it. They were misleading them into thinking they were getting cured but actually just being researched and studied for the effects of the disease on them.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Im talking about the experiments done by the Germans and the Japanese.
    Sounds close.

    And we want other countries to apologize for THEIR atrocities?

    Many researchers have cited that to this day that black communities do not trust the government and medical practices because of this.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    Did you not read? We DID apologize for this....

    And no its not the same. If we deliberately gave the blacks Syphilis, then yes, that would be the same as Nazi experiments.

    This is a terrible thing our country did, but to compare it to anything the Nazis did is highly revisionist to say the least.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    there is no way you could compare this to what the Nazis did, plain and simple. Wrong? yes, but not comparable to genocide.
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  19. #19
    Bokks's Avatar Thinking outside Myself
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    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    I have to agree wholeheartedly with Last Roman, Earl of Rochester, VOP2288 and a great deal with Sétanta, what was done was terrible and wrong, but to compare it to the holocaust is to lose sight of the sheer gravity and monstrosity of the entire event. It's unbecoming to those who were under the illusion that they were treated for the disease as well, as it turns both events into "just another holocaust" and makes it far easier to lose control over preventing either atrocities from occuring again. This "experiament" was, and is, inexcusable, but do try to put it in context.

    Also, the institution of slavery was, and is, barbaric and sickening, but the acts done against the wholly peaceful native tribes was much worse. There were dozens of events like Wounded Knee at which hundreds of unarmed men, women and children were gunned down and their massacres portrayed as spectacular victories simply because they were of the "godless savage kind" and were not worthy of mercy. I would not potray such massacres as giving the native american-indians as them having a "fighting chance", the "Indian Wars" you speak of were fought because while Africans were seen as valuable the only future given to the tribes was utter extermination.
    Would I have liked to make the journey in the Atlantic in some fecal infused lice infested coffin of a boat? No, but I certainly would not like to be forced at gun point to walk a thousand miles throught the snow in bare feet to a place that I had never heard of before when the supreme court of the government that had its bayonet in my back had declared that such an action was unconstitutional.
    Compared to the treatment of African slaves in such places as the Caribbean, especially Hispaniola, and South America, the slaves in the United States were treated nearly decently, decent enought that they would not try to rebel. In other areas they were treated so horribly that they would rise up in rebellion and choose death over living in such a way, something that I do not blame them to have done. You also had many men and women fighting for the freedom and equality of Africans in the United States, some even attempting to arm the slaves for a revolt that they never fought. There was no such support for the tribes, they were forgotten and their extermination accepted to such a point that in their own land and country they are still barely a minority.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Black Americans Were Used As Guinea Pigs For Syphilis

    US is/was institutionally racist
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