worldwide School shootings

[christof139]

All events such as that are sad. Chris

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

http://tinyurl.com/ywr8nm

Scotland: March 13, 1996, Dunblane, Scotland: 16 children and one teacher
killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack.

Yemen: March 1997, Sanaa, Yemen: Eight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri.

Canada: April 28, 1999, Taber, Alberta, Canada: One student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years. The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates.

Netherlands: Dec. 7, 1999, Veghel, Netherlands: One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.

Germany: March 2000, Branneburg, Germany: One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.

Sweden: Jan. 18, 2001, Jan, Sweden: One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.

Germany: Feb. 19, 2002, Freising, Germany: Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.

Germany: April 26, 2002, Erfurt, Germany: 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.

Bosnia-Herzegovina: April 29, 2002, Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina: One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.

Argentina: Sept. 28, 2004, Carmen de Patagones, Argentina: Three students
killed and 6 wounded by a 15-year-old Argentininan student in a town 620 miles south of Buenos Aires.

Canada: Sept. 13, 2006, Montreal, Canada: Kimveer Gill, 25, opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon at Dawson College. Anastasia De Sousa, 18, died and more than a dozen students.

Russia: Beslan.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I'm extremely surprised you didn't put even one from the USA. Columbine or VA Tech, at least.

[christof139]

No, but I left the link to the site that does list all the shootings.

See my post in the other thread concerning this.

It is not a matter to be spoken of with bias or vehemence similar to actual glee.

chris

[removeduser_487563287433]

What is the point of this thread? To show that school shootings in the single country of the USA are comprable to all the other school shootings on the planet put together, ranging from even the likes of Yemen?

[Kanaric]

What is the point of this thread? To show that school shootings in the single country of the USA are comprable to all the other school shootings on the planet put together, ranging from even the likes of Yemen?

Sounds about right.

[Gelgoog]

ill just post it again as this is virtually the same thread

schools are an extremely safe place. less than 30 people die a year due to school shootings, yet 5 kids die a day at the hands of their parents. you have a better chance of dying by being hit by lightning, slipping in your shower, ect.

so instead of pouring tons of resources into school security with checking backpacks and metal detectors, how about we provide free classes on firearms safety. changing the laws will do nothing.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Instead of *****ing about guns and gunlaws perhaps people should start to care about WHY people bring guns to school and waste people.

Dear God, GOING TO THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM!!! OH NOES!

Maybe if kids would stop treating each other like crap, then they wouldn't get shot when they tear a kid down enough so that he feels like dying. Honestly, I don't see how some people are surprised when Johnny pulls out a .45 and shoots the jock in the face. "He was such a quiet kid...because everytime he tried to talk they'd tell him "shut up fag"." or "He didn't have many friends, because everyone knew that hanging out with that kid would make you 'un-cool'."

See the Onion for more

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29298

[Gelgoog]

Instead of *****ing about guns and gunlaws perhaps people should start to care about WHY people bring guns to school and waste people.

Dear God, GOING TO THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM!!! OH NOES!

Maybe if kids would stop treating each other like crap, then they wouldn't get shot when they tear a kid down enough so that he feels like dying. Honestly, I don't see how some people are surprised when Johnny pulls out a .45 and shoots the jock in the face. "He was such a quiet kid...because everytime he tried to talk they'd tell him "shut up fag"." or "He didn't have many friends, because everyone knew that hanging out with that kid would make you 'un-cool'."

See the Onion for more

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29298

yes, it takes a village...to turn a normal person into a murderer.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Instead of *****ing about guns and gunlaws perhaps people should start to care about WHY people bring guns to school and waste people.

Dear God, GOING TO THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM!!! OH NOES!

Maybe if kids would stop treating each other like crap ...

Yes, because that is going to happen any day now.

Meanwhile, back in the real world where kids will always treat loners like crap just as they have since the dawn of time and where resentful loners will always contemplate revenge, perhaps it would be a good idea for resentful loners to NOT have access to semi-automatic weaponry designed solely to kill lots of people quickly.

Countries where access to such weaponry is restricted = few massacres
USA = regular massacres.

What's wrong with this picture? Easy access to guns, that's what.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Because as you know, the Colombine killers got their weapons Legally

Senator ThiudareiksGunthigg: "I know how to stop these kids from getting these illegal weapons...we'll...eh....make them even more illegal! Yeah, that's the ticket."

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Because as you know, the Colombine killers got their weapons Legally

In a society where such weapons can be bought legally by some people, those who can't buy them legally can get them easily illegally. Because they are available and they are cheap. Where I live no-one can buy such weapons legally. Are they still available illegally? Sure - if you have the right criminal underworld connections and a lot of cash.

School kids tend not to have the right criminal underworld connections or lots of cash. Neither do most people actually.

The result?

My country - few massacres (since we banned these weapons, anyway)
Your country - regular events.

What kneejerk gun nut argument comes next Hicks?

[Chaigidel]

we have plenty of people to spare-- this way the quicker ones live--- everyone should be armed to the teeth to promote awareness.

everyone would always be ready if everyone was armed ! this kid didnt manage to kill anyone recently ; so he just took himself out; thus fulfilling the purpose again of culling.

[mrmouth]

Its not the availability of weapons so much as it is the cruel nature of young people, and humanity in general for that matter. The common factor in all these events is the alienation and bullying of the offendor/s. You could replace fire extinguishers with shotguns in schools but the driving factor in them being used would be human emotion. You have to address the bullying nature that takes place in some of these schools. Sit down at the beginning of the year assembly and simply tell these kids that bullying can lead to the kind of crap we saw yesterday. You also have to make weeding out bullies a priority, making the punishments much more harsh.

When taking into account the amount of schools and students in the US, these incidents are rare. Fortunately there are very real steps that can be taken to prevent them altogether. However targeting guns is ridiculous and foolish, and much more difficult than simply targeting the people involved in the alienation of these kids, and the kids themselves.

[Erik]

Its not the availability of weapons so much as it is the cruel nature of young people

I'd say it's a combination of the two.

I also think violence outbursts are a natural part of being an adolescent, and having all the hormones and emotional confusion that is part of it.

Having easy access to weapons mean the difference between a black eye/bloody nose, and something far worst.

On the other hands: guns are cool, and if a couple of children have to die so the rest can play with firearms, then it's just the price they'll have to pay.
They might as well ban skateboards for the deaths they cause.
(not that I would support more relaxed gun laws in my country, I make a different trade-off, but I can understand especially Americans choosing fun with guns over saving a couple of children's lives)

[christof139]

Its not the availability of weapons so much as it is the cruel nature of young people, and humanity in general for that matter. The common factor in all these events is the alienation and bullying of the offendor/s. You could replace fire extinguishers with shotguns in schools but the driving factor in them being used would be human emotion. You have to address the bullying nature that takes place in some of these schools. Sit down at the beginning of the year assembly and simply tell these kids that bullying can lead to the kind of crap we saw yesterday. You also have to make weeding out bullies a priority, making the punishments much more harsh.

When taking into account the amount of schools and students in the US, these incidents are rare. Fortunately there are very real steps that can be taken to prevent them altogether. However targeting guns is ridiculous and foolish, and much more difficult than simply targeting the people involved in the alienation of these kids, and the kids themselves.

Very good points, and this exists all over our world.

Today, some 14-year old kid was caught yesterday with a boatload of guns in some eastern state I think it was. Ak-47 types (AKM's etc. and maybe both illegal and legal imports), pistols of various makes, a shotgun or two, AR-15/m-16 family of firearms, etc. He had tapes of Colombine etc., and may have been planning a massacare.

Also, he got one or some of the fireatms from his parents!!!

So, the problem has many variables causing it.

Much to do to correct this, and proper education about firearms, stricter legal and illegal sales, distribution, importation, number of firearms manufactured, controls etc. are necessary.

And the decline in morals and respect for other peoplealso has a lot to do with the rise in incidents of this type. Bullying and ridicule and humiliation of kids/all humans by other kids/all humans is not good and more should be done to control this. Some of today's violence espousing media such as Gansta Rap and some Racist and Violent Heavy Metal also aggravates the problem.

My soultion, nuke 'em till they glow. Problem is I don't know just exactly who to nuke yet. :hmmm: (Just being sarcastic and satirical, don't worry.)

Gee, I wished I lived in a crime and violent free country like Germany, Britain, Vietnam, the Sudan, Russia, Australia, Iran, Italy, Algeria, Mexico, Spain, Colombia, Malaysia, India, Pakistan, etc.

Chris

[Gelgoog]

just some comments and statistics on guns and violent crime for a criminal justice perspective.

- most criminals rarely carry firearms because the sentence is much stiffer if you have a gun and are caught during the crime

-most of the nations crime ( especially violent crime) occurs in 5 cities in america. detriot for example can be compared more to a 3rd world nation that a normal city of the usa.


remember statistics are your friend:

In 1996 your risk of being a victim of a crime in the United States was 5.079%, and of a violent crime 0.634%.
In 1960 these rates were 1.89% of being a victim of a crime and 0.161% of becoming victim of a violent crime.

there are many differences between the two eras. but the main two are
1) the drug epidemic
2) guns were a large part of society and actively taught to all strata. the fact that shooting sports were more popular then football will tell you alot, and bringing you gun to school for even 8 year olds was no concern.

# The violent crime rate increased 1.3% from 2004 to 2005. From 1996 to 2005 the rate fell 26.3%.
# The property crime rate decreased 2.4% from 2004 to 2005. From 1996 to 2005, the rate fell 22.9%.



According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

* During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun, and about 2%, a military-style semiautomatic gun.
* On average, State inmates possessing a firearm received sentences of 18 years, while those without a weapon had an average sentence of 12 years.
* Among prisoners carrying a firearm during their crime, 40% of State inmates and 56% of Federal inmates received a sentence enhancement because of the firearm.

Criminologist Marvin Wolfgang compiled arrest records for males born and raised in Philadelphia (in 1945 and in 1958). He found that just 7 percent in each age group committed two-thirds of all violent crime. This included three-fourths of the rapes and robberies, and nearly all of the murders. They also found that this 7 percent had five or more arrests before the age of 18.
(this is pretty close to nationwide statistics)


now id be happy to get into the theories of criminal justice and how to applies to the US justice system, but you'd do good taking some criminal justice classes before arguing what the system needs( because no one is really sure, as we dont stick with a system long enough to find out how successful it is).

[Lord Consul]

School shootings are mainly an American phenomenon. They happen all around the world, but not with such frequency and intensity.

To deny that is to refuse to see the obvious, such as saying that shantytowns are not a prevalent problem in Rio de Janeiro just because they exist elsewhere.

[Gelgoog]

School shootings are mainly an American phenomenon. They happen all around the world, but not with such frequency and intensity.

but they are overblown by people who perceive them occuring regularly. they are about as regular as jet liner crashes. and "massacres" are very infrequent. the majority is some kid bringing a gun in and going after a specific target, not random shooting. these are the same as someone going after a boss they dont like, except it happens in a school, its hardly a "massacre".

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

but they are overblown by people who perceive them occuring regularly. they are about as regular as jet liner crashes.

Big deal. They are still far more regular in your gun-flooded, gun-crazed country than they are in proper, civilised countries that sensibly restrict access to firearms. That's the point.

Saying they are relatively rare compared to, say, car crashes is beside the point. They are comparitively regular. Compared to countries that don't have your weirdly lax approach to dangerous weaponry.

D.C. Sniper for instance. He bought his legally...oops, another case of illegal firearm.

Another case that proves my point about how easy it is to get illegal firearms in a country flooded with legal ones.

Define Cheap...and available...

Cheaper and more available than in a country where all such firearms are illegal. Have you ever tried to buy an illegal firearm in Australia?

You can get just about anything illegally. You can get drugs here, they are illegal as hell

So you're advocating legalising all drugs as a result? How about child porn?

again, you don't need underworld connections.

Not in the US - the place is flooded with firearms. In Australia you do need underworld connections - they are rare, expensive and very hard to get hold of even if you have the money because you have to know the right people.

Yeah, regular events allright...I'm actually dodging bullets right now

Stupid argument - see above.

You're just going through the motions Hicks. Even you know that spray of hopeless non-arguments wasn't worth posting. Next time don't bother.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

Another case that proves my point about how easy it is to get illegal firearms in a country flooded with legal ones.

So, you're solution it to make all guns illegal...that'll work.

Cheaper and more available than in a country where all such firearms are illegal. Have you ever tried to buy an illegal firearm in Australia?

Hell, I'd be glad to hire a pilot to fly me, and a load of guns, to australia and I'd sell them for a small profit.

So you're advocating legalising all drugs as a result? How about child porn?

Typical. Tell me exactly where I advocated legalising drugs or child porn? Go on.
If that's the best thing you can do, put rediculous arguements in my mouth that have nothing to do with this discussion you'd be better off not getting envolved.

What I was saying is, blackmarkets are everywhere. I can buy pills, weapons, guns, yes even the kiddie porn that you have an interest in talking about. It just goes to show you that in a nation where drugs are 100% illegal, I can still buy them. Sort of ruins your arguement there.

Not in the US - the place is flooded with firearms. In Australia you do need underworld connections - they are rare, expensive and very hard to get hold of even if you have the money because you have to know the right people.

So are drugs, but I can still get them.

Stupid argument - see above.

Yeah, stupid arguement...right.

You know how many times any of the school sI've ever gone to have had a school shooting? Zero. That's a .000 school shooting average.

You're just going through the motions Hicks. Even you know that spray of hopeless non-arguments wasn't worth posting. Next time don't bother.

Says the guy who tried to say I wanted to legalize drugs and kiddie porn.
Pot....Kettle....Black....
Sound familiar?