BC: General & Military History Discussion Thread

[Miraj]

Please keep all historical and military discussions related to BC's subject area here.

Absolutely no flaming, flame-baiting and no ethnic/racial debates.

[Miraj]

Niice, my first 'historical discussion' victims. Posts moved from "Units".

[ShayanMirza]

haha my apologies, didn't notice this thread yet

[Fenix_120]

Yeah the mongols had a heck of a lot of cool weapons....

LIKE THE LASSO! I wish there were a way (and I'm almost positive there isn't) to make a lasso unit that can drag knights off their horses and trail them behind a Mongol rider until they're knocked silly and have no armor left...hehe

that's how the mongols used to roll (they ridin' durty)

All though the Mongols did indeed use many interesting weapons, I do not believe they would use a Lasso alone.

As a Texan that has both used a Lasso and rides a horse I can tell you that using a Lasso from horse back against another rider would be most difficult, a Lasso is not a very long ranged tool, and the other riders shield will do marvels to mess up the Lasso's trajectory.

Now I have read about some Turkish and Hungarian riders using some kind of meat hook at the end of a rope to drag infantry, not horsemen though.

[KozaK101]

I saw something on TV one time which said that Huns used lassos on Roman officers...there where pictures to go with it too...jno idea where to find them

Does anyone know a website that has lots of info that focuses on warfare in this period...not wikipedia plz lol

[Fenix_120]

I saw something on TV one time which said that Huns used lassos on Roman officers...l

Roman officers who were on foot?

[KozaK101]

Yeah though i suppose if you are a near unmatched horse man from the steppe you could transfer lassoing horses to lassoing riders

The whole roman thing is to just back up the last statement u made and i found it intresting

[ShayanMirza]

All though the Mongols did indeed use many interesting weapons, I do not believe they would use a Lasso alone.

As a Texan that has both used a Lasso and rides a horse I can tell you that using a Lasso from horse back against another rider would be most difficult, a Lasso is not a very long ranged tool, and the other riders shield will do marvels to mess up the Lasso's trajectory.

Now I have read about some Turkish and Hungarian riders using some kind of meat hook at the end of a rope to drag infantry, not horsemen though.

Their lasso is a different type, with a strong pole attached. Keep in mind also, however skilled a rider you may be, the nomadic horsemen of the steppe quite literally spent more time in the saddle than walking. Their entire life centered around horsemanship and they used lassos against running horses or one sheep huddled amongst dozens every day.

Lassomen were a quite regular unit in many central and southeast Asian countries. They were generally called "Kamanandazi" which literally means bow-thrower. They were used to great effect by the Delhi Sultanate against the Mongols, and the Mongols used them to great success against the Rus and other Eastern Europeans.

For more info: "Military Technology and Warfare in the Sultanate of Delhi" By Ali Athar, 2006.

[Valdamar]

I believe that one of the reasons for the Hussaria's "wings" was to counter the threat of the lasso. That and they must have sounded awesome at a full charge.

[Fenix_120]

http://books.google.com/books?id=-KA...JrccaMouxa-vGc


their you go, the Huns did indeed equip some of their troops with lasso's.

[KozaK101]

you sure thats the rite link?

[Fenix_120]

Yep, you might have to click on the + or - to read it though.

The parts about the Lasso are highlighted.

It does says its part of their equipment, thats literally all it says about them though.

[KozaK101]

i cant c any pages i can read though i mite not be lookin in the rite places

[Fenix_120]

Well... its page 382 if that helps...

[Fenix_120]

I suggest you read and research on the Indian "Khanda" (which is what these swords are).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanda_%28sword%29

I have read and researched the Khanda (I did so as soon as I saw the God-awful looking thing), and my thoughts about it remains the same.

It's very easy for one to predict the movement of a person armed with a Khanda.

The blade is heavy and with that kind of square tip it has pretty much screams "I'm gonna chop you!" and that your going to use the very tip of the blade to do so, the heavy tip of the blade also means that even with a much lighter weapon or shield that parrying a blow would be easy.

The points are not all that fanged ether, meaning that penetration would be limited .

http://www.deltin.net/5134.jpg

On the picture here the falchin has had the edges fanged so far that the blade looks more like an mining tool or hammer than a sword , now look at this crazy thing!


That thing is pretty predictable, but the base of the blade is counter weighted so that it won't go flying if it is parried, unlike the Khanda which has a much lighter base and pretty much guaranties that if the blade is parried the wielder will be left wide open.


This is why I do not like the weapon, this weapon was used during this time frame and so is rightly placed in the game.

That does not mean that "I" have to like it

Peace my brothers.

[teh.frickin.pope]

Actually, the bases look to be about as heavy, and the handguard on the Khanda would make a mean brass knuckles, adding another strike point to the weapon. I'm guessing it is also meant to be used with a shield, therefore adding another weapon to the user and cutting predictability again.

Edit: I believe europe was still utilizing the large kite shield, which compared to the smaller, sometimes metal shields of Rajput India, are not great second hand weapons.

But for a one-handed top-weighted sword I'll still go with this:

[spooksman]

When you have a contingent of screaming, heavily armoured kshatriya warriors maniacally waving heavy khandas and charging your position en masse, the finer points of hitting edge, strike points and predictability goes right out the window as everyone of us(or at least me) will be cowering behind a hopefully large and sturdy shield wall...



Pls dun mistake me trying to belittle anyone's knowledge though, i truly enjoy reading the discussion...hopefully there willb e more discussion about weapons employed during the medieval ages pertaining to time-frame of the mod...

[Fenix_120]

That is not what we call a Lasso here

I'm gonna find a source for the meat hooks for you guys, the way the hook worked was that a man would throw it into a line of infantry as he rode by, and then dragged who ever he caught until the line broke.

The weapon was actually not all that leathal, but it did mess up formations nice and good.

[akd]

That is not what we call a Lasso here

The lasso is simply the loop formed with the rope, so that is, in fact, what we call a lasso here. The rope itself is a lariat.

[SaberHRE]

I'm gonna find a source for the meat hooks for you guys, the way the hook worked was that a man would throw it into a line of infantry as he rode by, and then dragged who ever he caught until the line broke.

The weapon was actually not all that leathal, but it did mess up formations nice and good.

Sounds like a one man's military innovation than a whole army's equipment.

Returning back to the Mongols.

The Mongols were masters of war. They managed to dominate almost every aspect of it. One interesting aspect of warfare was military deception, and spontaneous innovationism.

The Mongols loved to make their army look bigger than it actually was. Traditionally they set up fires in camps, making their army look bigger. During battle they put mannequins on reserve horses. They pretended sickness and mutiny(by vomiting lamb blood or pretending rebellion in the army) before enemy emissaries.

Most importantly Mongols were highly innovative in waging war(a terrible "talent"). During the conquest of a certain city in Xi Xia, they demanded a tribute of 10000 birds and 1000 cats, only to attach burnt cloth to the cats and birds which would return to the city spreading fire.

During the siege of one of the Russian cities, they used a horsemen carried battering ram :O.