The beauty of free will

[Poisoner]

If God has given us free will and has never violated that trust he gave us, then why must we feel compelled to break those of that will.

In other words, as a person who has complete faith in God, I do not see why abortion, gay marriage, etc is such a big deal. Nor do I see the reasoning in compromising the free will of our fellow man.

[Rush Limbaugh]

Let this explain it all to you

George Carlin - Religion is ********.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Well i feel Mr. Carlin however funny he may be is quite wrong.

[TheKwas]

I'm glad that free-will is nonsense; it's a very depressing notion. I never understood why people praised the concept of free-will so much, except as a way to avoid pinning blame on God.

[Medicus]

I'm glad that free-will is nonsense; it's a very depressing notion. I never understood why people praised the concept of free-will so much, except as a way to avoid pinning blame on God.

Got it in one. If we have free-will, we choose to kill and injure our fellow man. And God doesn't get blamed for it. Convenient, isn't it?

[Scar Face]

If God has given us free will and has never violated that trust he gave us, then why must we feel compelled to break those of that will.

In other words, as a person who has complete faith in God, I do not see why abortion, gay marriage, etc is such a big deal. Nor do I see the reasoning in compromising the free will of our fellow man.

Free will has a responsibility. Just because you have Free will, doesn't mean you can do anything you please. Thats ridiculous. Free will is the ability to choose in life, be it a good choice or a bad one, but that also means accepting the consequences. What you seem to be advocating is Anarchy, which is never good. There always has to be order within the Chaos.

[Irishman]

If God has given us free will and has never violated that trust he gave us, then why must we feel compelled to break those of that will.

Speaking from your perspective, you have to worry about betraying his trust. He trusted you with free will, but asked you to act a certain way. You should be worried about the massive betrayal of God's gift.

From my perspective, may I ask you, do you believe that god is omniscient? If so (as it is stated in the Bible), how do you rectify the contradiction between the foreknowledge and free will?

[Ummon]

If God has given us free will and has never violated that trust he gave us, then why must we feel compelled to break those of that will.

In other words, as a person who has complete faith in God, I do not see why abortion, gay marriage, etc is such a big deal. Nor do I see the reasoning in compromising the free will of our fellow man.

There is a little misunderstanding here: being free to do what you want doesn't imply that whatever you do is right.

By the way, the Kabbalistic tradition has a perfect (actually, perfect, as in perfect) explanation for this. In any case, this is not like I am saying that you should investigate this "religious nonsense" you are criticizing without knowing it...

[Silver Guard]

There is no actual thing as free will in its literal meaning. Our minds are not free to make any decision, they're programmed to make certain decisions based on their DNA code, the information they have picked up, the experiences we have though our lives and our mind's capability to think. For that reason we are incapable of random thought, or actions without reason. For example, 40% of people asked to give a number between 1-10 will pick 7, another 20% will pick 10.

[Ummon]

There is no actual thing as free will in its literal meaning. Our minds are not free to make any decision, they're programmed to make certain decisions based on their DNA code, the information they have picked up, the experiences we have though our lives and our mind's capability to think. For that reason we are incapable of random thought, or actions without reason. For example, 40% of people asked to give a number between 1-10 will pick 7, another 20% will pick 10.

Wrong, as what Last Roman's says. We are free to gradually become more free, and we are always free to say no to our instinctual drives.

A degree of freedom is freedom.

Determinism is a viable choice only if you are omnipotent and omniscient.

[Bokks]

True freedom is the ability to freely say that you're not free.

That and to freely take the freedom of someone who has limited freedom.
Almost makes Jeffersons views on periodic, bloody rebellion nearly justified.
Nearly...

-oh, and I must be in a minority, I usually pick three!

[Last Roman]

Wrong, as what Last Roman's says. We are free to gradually become more free, and we are always free to say no to our instinctual drives.

so are you saying that most of our choices aren't impacted by either instinct or experience?

[Last Roman]

there is no such thing as free will.

I'm not arguing for divine intervention, or that everything happens for a greater purpose, but all our actions are done for a reason, there is some motivation behind it, whether it be instinct, a conscious choice or subconscious one.

edit: eclipse said it better than I did.

[TheKwas]

Our 'saying no' to our instincts is just an unavoidable output from numerous inputs being processed by our brain. If we rewind time, and replay everything again with everything exactly as it was, you would make the exact same decision.

[Ummon]

so are you saying that most of our choices aren't impacted by either instinct or experience?

You have replied yourself: when you say most.

First, genes are responsible of more than 50% of our traits. The rest is determined by experience. But cognitive neuroscience has proven that you can always say no to your drives.

Consciousness exists to integrate information towards suspension of dependence from automatic responses. The more you become conscious, the more you study, the more you meditate, the more you strive to liberate yourself, the more free you become.

This doesn't mean, you can do whatever you want. Quite the opposite: you become more aware of the limits to your choices. But then, inside these limits, often you can do things other men consider impossible.

Our 'saying no' to our instincts is just an unavoidable output from numerous inputs being processed by our brain. If we rewind time, and replay everything again with everything exactly as it was, you would make the exact same decision.

Have you rewinded time? Hereby assuming your hypothesis as fact.

Second, no. Since the last time I discussed this, besides, I have been dealing with this a lot, and I can tell you: no, what you say is not correct.

By acquiring more knowledge, you acquire alternatives in situations. The various balances found by groups of oscillators in your brain are at your consciousness's disposal, and you are not forced to take a decision, only inclined to. The amount of freedom lies in your ability to influence yourself, through your life, bit by bit.

[Last Roman]

The rest is determined by experience. But cognitive neuroscience has proven that you can always say no to your drives.

sure, you can, but do people?

I guess I'm asking: If we have the ability, but don't use it, is that the same as not really having it?

[Ummon]

sure, you can, but do people?

I guess I'm asking: If we have the ability, but don't use it, is that the same as not really having it?

Using the ability to choose costs a lot. If you think it may help you, go and start spending a lot of time and energy, because that is the only way.

Last Roman agrees with me? See there Newbie? Theres something you'll have to do before you make me re-hee-heally mad (sorry, in joke)

The problem is not who agrees, but who is right.

What?

Experiences don't make you free, they just simply re-direct your choices, over which you have no control, they are decided for you by your genes and experiences.

Provably wrong. This doesn't mean that I can post the demonstration here, though. Economy and certain issues of originality having to be preserved forbid it.

[Spurius]

Provably wrong. This doesn't mean that I can post the demonstration here, though. Economy and certain issues of originality having to be preserved forbid it.

Yeah, I'm with Ummon here - to cut a long story short, you need to know every detail to infinity, and need infinite computing power to make it work.

Also denies the fact we have a memory of screwing up first time - what you're saying is that learning does not exist. Even if we fail to remember it consciously, we will have some sense of 'something wrong here'. How do you think reflexes came into being...

[Silver Guard]

Wrong, as what Last Roman's says. We are free to gradually become more free, and we are always free to say no to our instinctual drives.

Last Roman agrees with me? See there Newbie? Theres something you'll have to do before you make me re-hee-heally mad (sorry, in joke)

Determinism is a viable choice only if you are omnipotent and omniscient.

What?

Experiences don't make you free, they just simply re-direct your choices, over which you have no control, they are decided for you by your genes and experiences.

[Bokks]

What?

I believe he means you can decide on what to do only when you're everywhere at once and know everything that is going on.