Pergamon

[swhunter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pergamon

History

http://www.bibleplaces.com/pergamum.htm

http://www.galenfrysinger.com/pergamum_turkey.htm

Pictures of Troy and Pergumom

http://www.ancientanatolia.com/histo...um_kingdom.htm

Perg. Kingdom

http://www.ancientanatolia.com/Pictu.../gallery01.htm

Picture gallery

http://upge.wn.com/?t=ancientgreece/index7.txt

More history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatian_War

Galatian War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chios

More battles

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greec...ergamon/i.html

Coins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attalid_dynasty

more history... very good!

[pseudocaesar]

Eeep, its Pergamon in Greek, Pergamum in Latin.

[wynofthetim]

its one letter folks. does it REALLY matter?
go with which ever was in RS1.
means dvk wont have to go around and put the new spelling into the game.

[pseudocaesar]

its one letter folks. does it REALLY matter?
go with which ever was in RS1.
means dvk wont have to go around and put the new spelling into the game.

If you look at the RS 2 BETA you would see he actually did change the spelling of nearly all Greek cities already, and it is extremely important to get spelling accurate, one letter does REALLY matter, You wouldn't call Rome Rame or Rhme would you. The correct way to portray Pergamon is, Pergamon and Pergamonian.

[rory o'kane]

i agree with pseudo on this one.

[cherryfunk]

We have to use Pergamon, it just looks much cooler, and doesn't make me think of The Mummy. The Pergamummy.

A few AOR units we should consider:

Thracian skirmishers
Thracian cavalry
Galatian heavy foot
Galatian heavy cavalry
Galatian skirmishers?
Cappadocian cavalry
Bithynian something (what were they noted for?)

[wynofthetim]

ah... ok

Bithynian something (what were they noted for?)

there controversy in the RS forum?

[cherryfunk]

Okay, so then:

Bithynian Controversial Infantry
stats: frightens modders / causes confusion / wears mysterious helmets / freaks out swhunter

[DR. Hobo. PHD.]

a couple of units i suggest to thier base roster:
taxies hoplitai
hoplitai
ekdromoi hoplitai

[swhunter]

Okay, so then:

Bithynian Controversial Infantry
stats: frightens modders / causes confusion / wears mysterious helmets / freaks out swhunter

All i can say is!!!....................

Yep!

[Drtad]

Bithynian something (what were they noted for?)

I believe they were known for their navy. Don't forget it was Admiral Hannibal Barca (yes, the same one) who commanded the Bythinian Navy to completely obliterate Pergamum's entire fleet. Too bad that can't be represented...

Perhaps we could have Nicomedian Hoplites?

[dvk901]

I believe they were known for their navy. Don't forget it was Admiral Hannibal Barca (yes, the same one) who commanded the Bythinian Navy to completely obliterate Pergamum's entire fleet. Too bad that can't be represented...

Perhaps we could have Nicomedian Hoplites?

We do. I changed the 'Tarentian Hoplite' into a 'Bithynian Hoplite'.

[Drtad]

We do.

We do? Then having another Bythinian AOR unit would be superfluous since they are just Greeks... A Bythinian Hoplite would be bad to, since they would be equivalent to Nicomedian hoplites.

[cherryfunk]

Found a fascinating description of a Pergamon/Seleucid battle:

The First Battle of Pergamum, 190BC

Following the success of the great eastern expeditions and the war against Egypt, the Seleukid king, Antiochus III "The Great", decided that he could now turn his attention to the west and in particular to the breakaway kingdom of Pergamum ruled by Eumenes II. Concluding that a rapid attack straight at the city of Pergamum would be the best plan he quickly collected together an army and marched west from Antioch. Due to the speed of his attack there was no time to ensure a full call-up of the Katoikoi troops, especially the phalanx, and he was forced to supplement the Syrian and Phrygian troops available with Galatian cavalry and Bedouin tribesmen mounted on camels.

THE ARMIES

Eumenes, knowing he was outnumbered, decided to anchor one flank of his army on the sea so that he could not be outflanked on both sides. He, therefore, deployed his own command, the largest, next to the sea and that of Prince Attalos to his right. Eumenes troops were drawn up in the following manner. On the left, next to the beach, were half the Tarantine cavalry and on their right 600 mercenary thureophoroi deployed facing a small area of rough ground. Next in line were half the army's bolt shooters, taken from the walls of Pergamum to swell the army, that would hopefully cause great slaughter with missiles that no shield could withstand.

Extending the line to their right was a deep body of light troops comprising the Mysian javelinmen and the Cretan archers supporting them. Behind the skirmishers were the ferocious Galatian tribesmen, fierce warriors, naked apart from their gold torques, able to sweep even a Macedonian phalanx away in their charge and convinced of their invulnerability. At either end of the Galatians, still behind the psiloi were two columns of thureophoroi to be deployed when needed. Behind all of these stood the king himself with his bodyguard and to their rear a body of Xystophoroi cavalry waiting in reserve. Finally, Eumenes placed Stone Throwers [onagers?] at the right hand end of his part of the line. This was indeed unusual as these large engines were only usually seen at sieges. Prince Attalos extended his father's battleline from the siege engines with his mercenary thureophoroi and then his bolt shooters. Trallian slingers and the rest of the Tarantine cavalry finished off the front line. Behind the Trallians were Galatian horsemen, good troops but lacking the ferocity of their unmounted brethren, and further to the rear was the Prince with the remainder of the Xystophoroi.

Antiochus wishing to make full use of his superior numbers, especially in mounted troops adopted a relatively thin deployment between the sea and the village. On the right commanded by his general Nikanor, were nearly all the infantry of the army. The extreme right, covering the rough ground next to the sea, were the thureophoroi. Next to them was a taxis of Argyraspides drawn up only half the depth normal for a phalanx. To their left, in the normal fashion for a Macedonian phalanx were the Syrian Katoikoi 3 taxis strong, bronze shields glinting in the sun's rays. Guarding their left was the second Argyraspide taxis also deployed as was customary, and to their left the Thorakitai carrying spears and armoured with mail. Nikanor and a small bodyguard placed themselves behind the right most taxis of the Katoikoi. Next to Nikanor's command were the troops placed under Antiochus' son, Seleukos, comprising of most of the citizen cavalry. First, however, came 500 Thracians from a colony founded by Seleukos himself, supported by the same number of the slingers called Kyrtii from Media. To their left were the Politikoi cavalry from the Syrian cities armed in the fashion of Tarantines and to their left 1500 Katoikoi cavalry led by the prince. These last troops were now armed in the fashion of the Parthian nomads encountered on the eastern expedition, man and horse fully armoured [cataphracts].

Next followed Antiochus' own command. In line next to the Katoikoi was a body made up of 2 groups of 8 Elephants surrounded by their escorts all surrounded by 1500 archers from various Asiatic tribes subject to Antiochus. On their left were the Bedouin tribesmen with bow and spear riding camels still dusty from the desert. Finally came a column of the remaining soldiers headed by 600 Galatian horsemen followed by the king at the head of the Hetaroi and Agema, resplendent in gold and purple.

THE BATTLE

Now the fighting began in earnest. On the Seleukid left both sides mounted troops charged and counter charged repeatedly to little avail for at least one and a half-hours. The Pergamenes were forced to send in their Xystophoroi reserves to counter the superior Seleukid numbers and these entered a drawn out fight with the Bedouin, both sides giving ground in a confused melee. At the same time the asiatic archers laid down a fearsome arrow storm on the massed psiloi facing them causing great disruption in their ranks and forcing hundreds to flee in panic creating holes in the battle line to be exploited by the elephants. These fearsome beasts with towers on their backs filled with archers and pikemen trampled the hapless Trallians under their huge feet, goring them with iron cased tusks. However, not all went the way of Antiochus' army for Attalos' artillery forced the Politikoi to withdraw to a safe distance and laid low many asiatic archers with deadly bolts. During this time the rest of both armies inched towards each other looking for some weakness to be exploited by a decisive charge.

Seeing that his cavalry were not breaking through their opponents as expected Antiochus now led the Hetaroi and Agema into the fray fighting at their head so as to inspire them to greater feats of valour. However, despite having the desired effect his presence also inspired the Pergamenes to greater resistance and on two occasions the king's life was in some danger. Finally he led his bodyguard victoriously through the Pergamene lines thus creating the much hoped for breakthrough. Unfortunately by this time his troops were no longer in their perfect battle order and so were not in a good position to exploit his success.

On seeing his son in trouble Eumenes decided that he must gamble on a charge straight at the enemies phalanx before Seleukos drove the Katoikoi through the centre of the Pergamene army as he was now poised to do. Therefore, he advanced the Pergamene left as fast as possible towards his enemy with the intention of the Galatians rushing the Katoikoi phalanx. Nikanor seeing this was goaded into action and advanced to meet him, although he was prudent enough to ensure the phalanx was supported by the Thureophoroi and Thorakitai on it's flanks to prevent enemy psiloi attacking it in its most vulnerable points. To aid the general Seleukos moved some Politikoi to threaten the flank of the advancing enemy psiloi and the Katoikoi catafracts towards the mercenary Thureophoroi. The final act of the battle was about to be played out, however, before this happened Antiochus' elephants charged over Attalos' artillery smashing them into firewood with the escorts killing the crews out of hand.

As Eumenes pushed forwards the Galatians finally became uncontrollable and charged forward at the most inopportune moment. Some pushed their way through the Mysians and Cretans eagerly wanting to get to grips with the phalanx whilst others became entangled with their supporting Thureophoroi braking up both of their formations. Seeing his advantage Nikanor ordered the whole phalanx to charge with their Thureophoroi and Thorakitai supports. The awesome weight of a charging phalanx, on perfectly flat ground, now crashed into the mix of Mysians, Galatians and mercenaries. Although the Galatians fought like madmen, often charging onto the end of five or more pikes in their fury their resistance was futile and in less than half an hour over half lay dead on the filed of battle impaled on the pikes of the Seleukid army. At the same time the Mysians and Cretans withdrew knowing they stood no chance against the rampant phalanx and the mercenaries made a fighting withdrawal.

With Seleukos' Katoikoi now poised to charge the Pergamene army disintegrated with everyman fleeing to save himself. Eumenes and Attalos extracted as many troops as they could from the rout and fled back to the city with barely one fifth of the troops they started the day with and the loss of all their artillery. The Seleukids pursued right to the city walls causing much slaughter on the remnants of the Pergamene army and looting their camp.

http://www.endoftime.pwp.blueyonder....rg1/battle.htm

=============================

Some things to note from this account:

- The importance of field artillery, including large 'stone throwers', for Pergamon.

- The importance placed on the Galatian foot by the Pergamon -- it seems to have been the best offensive infantry they had, and they counted on it to throw back the Seleucid phalanx. Also, note how unruly and difficult to control they were.

- The Galatian cavalry does not seem to have been particularly effective -- perhaps these were light cavalry? Should we have a light Galatian cav. unit?

- Some AOR units we might consider: Mysian javelinmen (from northwest Anatolia); Kyrtii Slingers (from Media) -- I'm finding some suggestions that these might be Kurds.

- Thracian skirmishers fighting with the Seleucids, drawn from a Thracian colony founded by Seleukos. Remember that a large Thracian contingent fought with Alexander, and there were also a large number with the mercenary army that Cyrus hired to overthrow his brother (of Xenephon fame) -- clearly the Thracians were considered to be the best skirmishers around or they would not have been used so much, so we definitely need at least 1 Thracian unit, and they should be available as mercs in this area.

- A very large 'Asian' archer contingent, which I think we're representing well with our Scythian and Parthian archer units, though we should in general make this an AOR issue -- i.e. Scythians avaible near the Black Sea, Parthians east of the Caspian, Persians near Persa, a Median archer unit near Media, Syrians in Syrian, etc. We have enough archer units to properly portray the preponderance of this type of warrior, we just need to space them out properly via AOR.

[rory o'kane]

good work cherry! i heartily concur!

[tone]

Good bit of research - definitely need some naked Galatians then.

[DR. Hobo. PHD.]

thanks so much for that, it will go along way for us

[cherryfunk]

dvk, is it possible to give ballistae and onagers different speeds on the strategic map? Or is there just one speed for siege engines?

[dvk901]

I don't know of any way to change their speed.....

[aja5191]

Are yo talking about distance they can travel on the campaign map?