Mongol or English Massacre?

[Swordboy]

Hi guys',

I'm a bit of a Noobster here, as I just got this game last Saturday. I've only been involved in one pissy little siege that only involved a few militia units on both sides ( AI was breaking in that is. I've besieged and fought quite a few the other way around) but I seem to be in a challenging spot (to put it laughably mildly) now with the dreaded Mongols.

Long story short, I've been playing as the English and watching with "concern", the 10 full stack (uber general in each) Mongol Horde make it's way across the Steppes and, ultimately besieging and taking Moscow (my ally) without a scratch. I've had several very good spies appraise me of the army composition and quality.

They just sort of parked there for a number of turns when one of the stack made it's way to Russian held Vilnius. I thought this a good time to pick a fight with them and sent the closest & best general in the area to lift what was sure to be another siege. The full garrison of Russians were in a (((Canon Towered))) Citadel, and thus I expected them to hold until I arrived. Didn't happen.

My 5 star night fighter hosting about 7 well armoured knight cavalry and some 11 Longbowmen & 2 culverin, arrived two turns too late to lift what became in fact a siege. Strangely enough, the next turn the (entirely silver exp & intact) Mongol army) was gone, and the Citidel was empty except for their general.

Bang, I pounced, autoresolved, and bagged the Citadel losing only 6 bowmen. The Mongols were not amused. I hit the end turn button and lo and behold, the absent (silver) army is about a day's march from the west (AND) I have another 8 armies marching in a perfect arrowhead formation from Moscow, meaning they'll be at my doorstep in the next 1, maybe 2 turns. Something tells me this will be major suckage.

I've heard tell, goading the Horde into a siege rush is one of the better methods of dealing with them, but sweet mother, NINE well equiped armies??

The fight is tonight mates, and I'm damn glad for any suggestions, keeping in mind that I have heavy cavalry, retinue longbowmen (will use the stakes at the gates & chokepoints thank you very much) & 2 culverin to deal with these boys and that's it...

Thanks!

[Captain Spanky]

You should be able to win with a force like that. The enemy will probably only attack you with 3 stacks, consisting mainly of cavalry. For the most part a lot of their infantry can be disregarded, apart from the spearmen, which could hurt your cavalry. If I were you I would try to get hold of some decent heavy infantry instead of the culverins and a couple of longbowmen units. Apart from that the stakes should decimate the horses, as well as the general, who is usually first one. Just watch out for your counter charging cavalry. Stakes affect them too.

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

i try to trap them at a river and pin them before sending hoards of my best troops at them

[Mr Longbowman]

I want to hear about this battle

I am mostly aggreing with Captain Spanky that you would be able to handle it and the entire Mongol force wont attack you.

[Lord Firkraag]

What Captain Spanky said, you should be able to hold with some heavy infantry, and make sure you have men manning the cannon towers.

The AI seems to fail miserably in taking citadels/castles (actually it fails in most sieges) so you should be ok.

[Captain Spanky]

What sort of longbowmen are you using? Retinue longbowmen should be able to hold the walls alone, I'd be very surprised if they didnt. If that is the case then keep all non missile infantry on the ground, and spread your archers to activate as many towers as possible.

Best of luck, though by the sounds of things you wont really need it.

[Swordboy]

To the folks who replied to the initial post, I thank you for all the input and apologize for not writing sooner but I've been in Canada visiting Niagara Falls eh?

So...

The first battle took place when I dispatched all but one unit of bowmen to deal with the "silver" stack boys of the late general I'd just whacked. We engaged them in a rather nasty night battle in which I made the mistake of pitting my Retinue Longbowmen against an entirely missle Mongol force. Nevertheless, they aquitted themselves well and slaughtered many of the devils before my horsemen became impatient and charged their right flank, and straight through the middle. After a viscious fight, the Mongol lines began to crumple, and what was left of them fled the field.

No mercy for the bleedin' Mongol captives. Bloody well deserved the blade eh?

We were also pretty badly shredded but, were able to make it back to the citadel in the same turn for re-training. This was a good thing too, because we had only 2 turns before the first of the Ubergenerals and his silver hoard arrived.

Given the nasty losses of horsemen we sustained, I simply put the survivors together and trained a few heavy swordsmen, and a spear unit in the brief time we had to prepare.

The Mongols laid siege, and we struck back immediately in a bright moonlit sally. I placed the Retinue Longbowmen on the walls, per standard procedure, and made sure they doused the flaming arrows, trading flash for accuracy.

The 2 culverins were situated on a lovely little hill behind and to the left of the main gate, and the heavy infantry & spearmen at the gates. The heavy horse waited at the flanks with the general.

The survivors of a mauled longbowmen unit were sent through the gates in loose formation to draw the Mongols into combat, and BOY did they! All Hell broke loose, as every foot archer unit and several horsemen surged forward into a storm of bodkins from the walls, and cannon fire from the towers to shoot at my bowmen. From the walls, the victims of the cannonade looked like dry grass igniting in a stiff wind...

Meanwhile the culverin fired upon the Mongol overlord until he at last collapsed in that welcome little "Whaddyaknow M'lord the blighter's nixed" video.

Soon after, the arrows & cannonballs ran out, but not before they'd absolutely shredded the Mongol foot archers and most of their missle calvary. It was time for the melee boys to earn their pay. I sent the heavy infantry & spearmen out in loose formation, spears to the center, swordsmen to the flanks to draw in the enemy (who by the way NEVER run out of arrows).

Just before they closed with the enemy, I pulled them in tight for the charge. Nevertheless, the spearmen routed pretty quickly, being set upon from three sides , but those bloody swordsmen held fast leaving me the room to launch a devastating heavy calvary charge at both flanks of the Mongol army. It was pretty clear we'd won the field, but the whole time I worried that my friggin' ballsy general would get himself dead in the midst of a glut of stubborn & experienced Mongol heavy horse. Thankfully this didn't happen and the Mongols melted away in retreat.

My losses were about 120 men & horse, their losses were about 670ish, including an irreplaceable general. Two uber generals down and 6 to go.

I won't bore you with the ensuing siege details. Needless to say the Mongols are a stubborn lot, and they sent 4 more hotshot generals, each sporting a full stack army to try to take back Vilnius, as well as one full stack led by a captain, and each met more or less the same fate. Thankfully, I wasn't playing a human who'd surely not fall for the same tricks.

By trying so hard to take back Vilnius, the Mongols effectively wrecked their hoard (7 full stacks!!) and thus were vulnerable to the ensuing English invasion that swiftly took three more Mongol provinces. At the time of this writing, the last Mongol overlord is under siege and only two battered Mongol armies are milling about.

Thus endeth the Mongol reign of terror.

I'm thinking of calling a ceasefire and giving them that crappy little island off the coast of Genoa where they can live harmlessly without coming back time and again, then killing off the ones in Russia.

Any thoughts on this?

And I'm off!! Giddyap Sweet Concorde!!!

[Druzhina]

Well done! That can't have been easy, but yes you shouldn't wipe out the Mongols, cause if you do then reinforcements will arrive from Asia. Just make sure they have 1 weak force left that is no threat to you and you'll be OK.

[SSJPabs]

Well eventually they stop. I think they get about 12 stacks all together.

Then of course the Timurids come and they will smash you in the open field with their elephants. I am not clear about one thing where are you fighting them? At the walls? in front of the walls?

And yes they DO run out of arrows. Your army is mostly dead by then of course.

Once as the Turks, I took 3 1/2 Mongol super-stacks out when they attacked Sarkel. I lost because they had a spy that opened the gates to them EVERY DAMN TIME. So I had to sacrifice a unit each battle to hold them off while I could retreat to defensive positions. They eventually overran me because they besieged me every turn so I couldn't retrain.

[Mr. G]

I have a game my self, where it is my vs. the Mongols around Jerusalem.
My hint is to put all your spearmen into schiltrom formation. Set the cav. on the flanks, and the swordsmen and bowmen close behind. When they charge, flank them with your cav. by the same time as you send your swordsmen forward. Then you may root with some luck. The problem is only the mass of the hoard...

[Swordboy]

In most cases I avoided confronting the Mongols in the open field, unless I could ensure a secure position on the high ground. In that case, when they advanced, I'd have spearmen in front of the Longbowmen, and removed the skirmish option from the LB to keep them in place. I also kept several armored swordsmen just behind them to rush in to stop the inevitable Heavy Lancer charge from chewing up the spearmen too badly. I placed a good deal of Heavy Cavalry on the wings to cut loose on the foot archers & infantry battered by the Longbowmen. This isn't a particularly inspired field strategy, but it worked on about 2/3 of the occasions (if) I had a good general commanding, and (if) there were no more than two Mongol armies, and (if) one of those wasn't on my extreme flank or (shudder) in my rear. In any case, my casualties were almost always brutal.

When besieged however, During the sally, I used the "Bait them to the walls strategy", and those aggressive bastards took the bait every time. I'd lure them to the walls with a depleted unit of longbowmen and when the'd move in to return fire, the LB on the walls would essentially decimate their missle infantry & cavalry. A couple culverin on a hill behind the walls, and the cannon towers would just add dramatic icing to the cake. Seeing a night battle enfold thusly was truly a beautiful thing to behold, especially that lovely animation of the enemy general getting blasted from his horse, which happened in most of the six or so battles for Vilnius. After the shooting stopped, I'd send in the spear & sword untis on loose formation until just before they'd engage. Usually there weren't enough enemy infantry & heavy cavalry to cope with my infantry, (and) the heavy cavalry I'd dispatch to their wings.

Have fun guys, it's almost friday!

[TheJoker]

I had them lay siege to me in Jerusalem when I only had 3 units of LB and one of foot knights, the rest was spears.. I killed the majority, but ran out of arrows.. And well.. with no reload option of any sort eventually I lost. That said, the kill/death ratio was impressive.